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We could try to quantify the simplicity of an electric vs a combustion engine car. Let's count the number of different fluid systems in a regular car. There's

We could try to quantify the simplicity of an electric vs a combustion engine car. Let's count the number of different fluid systems in a regular car. There's the fuel, engine oil, coolant, transmission oil, brake fluid, windshield washing liquid and air conditioning fluid. Battery acid we don't count as they are sealed nowadays, and you replace it as a unit. I think an electric car needs battery coolant, I assume fixed ratio gear still has oil that needs changing. Then brake fluid, windshied washing liquid and air conditioning fluid are just the same as in a combustion car. So I think we got rid of fuel and engine oil, they are the messiest and need most touch labor, but basically all the other was left intact. It's not an insignificant improvement, but there's still lots of maintenance targets left.

bryanlarsen 6y ago
Yep, 100,000 miles for the gearbox oil change on a Tesla, 2 years for the brake fluid and 50,000 miles for the battery coolant. The odd thing about the brake fluid change is that because of regenerative braking, the pads usually last a lot longer than the fluid does. It's not maintenance free, but service every 2 years rather than every 3 months feels substantially different.
throwaway0a5e 6y ago
For the duration your average new car buyer, and to a greater extend, HNer (this isn't exactly the "put 200k on an Altima u bought new" crowd), will own any given car these things won't be issues or if they are they'll be under warranty. Everyone circle jerks about how their new 4Runner will last a million miles but you scroll back through the Facebook timeline, see how often they're buying cars, and it becomes pretty clear the people saying these things don't expect that to happen under their ownership (and the stats the automakers pay people to analyze over confirm this). New vehicles don't often get sold to people who will own them to the point where the lower level systems start needing attention. ICE specific systems are highly refined because they get copypasta'd with minor alterations between multiple products. The stupid HVAC flapper that's specific to your model so some engineer could get a bonus for re-using some existing blower assembly is what's tested less and breaks more. It's rarely the "A to B" bits of the vehicle that give the people who buy new vehicles issue (except when OEMs put unnecessary things in the critical path, like preventing you from taking it out of Park without the consent of the door switches and stuff like that). EVs aren't immune to that kind of stuff that dominates early life (unscheduled) maintenance costs. Electric isn't a hands down winner yet though it appears to be on that path. If if were we'd see EV Tranit Connect and NV200s and other vehicles that are purchased strictly by the numbers flying off the shelves. But it's probably close and the reason we're not there yet is likely just developmental man hours, not anything fundamental.
- Gravityloss 6y ago
  There might now be motivation to deliver fully electric brake systems. They would have to be very reliable. A path to there could first be a small hydraulic pump for every wheel. For AC and battery thermal management, having a fluid is more fundamental. Solid state heat engines have terrible efficiency currently. Bikes have started using hydraulic disc brakes instead of cables, even when self service is much harder. Going the other way.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
spyder 6y ago
Another thing frequently mentioned: The regenerative braking system in an EV means that brakes will undergo less wear and tear.
marcodiego 6y ago
I think you should try to quantify simplicity by the number of moving parts.

bryanlarsen 6y ago

Yep, 100,000 miles for the gearbox oil change on a Tesla, 2 years for the brake fluid and 50,000 miles for the battery coolant. The odd thing about the brake fluid change is that because of regenerative braking, the pads usually last a lot longer than the fluid does. It's not maintenance free, but service every 2 years rather than every 3 months feels substantially different.

throwaway0a5e 6y ago

For the duration your average new car buyer, and to a greater extend, HNer (this isn't exactly the "put 200k on an Altima u bought new" crowd), will own any given car these things won't be issues or if they are they'll be under warranty. Everyone circle jerks about how their new 4Runner will last a million miles but you scroll back through the Facebook timeline, see how often they're buying cars, and it becomes pretty clear the people saying these things don't expect that to happen under their ownership (and the stats the automakers pay people to analyze over confirm this). New vehicles don't often get sold to people who will own them to the point where the lower level systems start needing attention. ICE specific systems are highly refined because they get copypasta'd with minor alterations between multiple products. The stupid HVAC flapper that's specific to your model so some engineer could get a bonus for re-using some existing blower assembly is what's tested less and breaks more. It's rarely the "A to B" bits of the vehicle that give the people who buy new vehicles issue (except when OEMs put unnecessary things in the critical path, like preventing you from taking it out of Park without the consent of the door switches and stuff like that). EVs aren't immune to that kind of stuff that dominates early life (unscheduled) maintenance costs. Electric isn't a hands down winner yet though it appears to be on that path. If if were we'd see EV Tranit Connect and NV200s and other vehicles that are purchased strictly by the numbers flying off the shelves. But it's probably close and the reason we're not there yet is likely just developmental man hours, not anything fundamental.

Gravityloss 6y ago
There might now be motivation to deliver fully electric brake systems. They would have to be very reliable. A path to there could first be a small hydraulic pump for every wheel. For AC and battery thermal management, having a fluid is more fundamental. Solid state heat engines have terrible efficiency currently. Bikes have started using hydraulic disc brakes instead of cables, even when self service is much harder. Going the other way.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

spyder 6y ago

Another thing frequently mentioned: The regenerative braking system in an EV means that brakes will undergo less wear and tear.

marcodiego 6y ago

I think you should try to quantify simplicity by the number of moving parts.