3 ms·

Well that's a hell of a strawman...

by ertian 6y ago

hutzlibu 6y ago
"because he is a prominent figure and at the same time white, male" Oh right. I probably confused parent posters words for .. I don't know. Isn't he or she (less likely) exactly saying this? That RMS was targeted because he is white and male and not because of what he did and said? How is that not thinking along the lines of conspiracy? Exaggerated, yes. But strawman? Where exactly?
- thefz 6y ago
  The fact that one demographic is or is not statistically oppressed does not absolutely warrant for any of its members the impossibility of not being targeted or harassed. And there is a quite large movement of people online "bored" of white old dudes. Let alone the movement trying to undermine meritocracy in the name of inclusion via intersectionality.
- ertian 6y ago
  There's a huuuuge gap between "some prominent old white dudes might be targeted in specific communities" and "white guys are the most persecuted people on earth." When the Stallman thing was still fresh, I saw people online argue that it _didn't really matter_ whether Minsky actually did anything wrong, or whether it was inappropriate for Stallman to defend him. There are too many old white guys in prominent positions in tech, and reducing their numbers is a good thing. Sure it'll mess up Stallman's life, but whatever, that's a small price to pay for progress. In other words, explicitly: it's okay to target him, even if the accusations aren't correct, because he's an old white guy. I think that's something people really believe. I also think it's unfair, and shouldn't be tolerated. And yet...I don't believe anything _close_ to the argument you put in OP's mouth (and by extension, mine). No, white guys aren't even close to the most persecuted people on the planet--and yet, that doesn't make them immune from persecution in all forms, either. So: you attempted to rebut an argument by reducing it to a ridiculous caricature of itself. That's called a strawman.
  - hutzlibu 6y ago
    You find ridiculus believes for allmost anything. Like flat earthers. But they usually don't have much power or influence. Implying that he was targeted because he was white and male, implies that those crazy people have a lot of power and influence - which means conspiracy. Now sure, conspiracies can be true, but you maybe know how they say, extra ordinary claims, require extra ordinary evidence.

Well that's a hell of a strawman...

by ertian 6y ago

Well that's a hell of a strawman...

"because he is a prominent figure and at the same time white, male" Oh right. I probably confused parent posters words for .. I don't know. Isn't he or she (less likely) exactly saying this? That RMS was targeted because he is white and male and not because of what he did and said? How is that not thinking along the lines of conspiracy? Exaggerated, yes. But strawman? Where exactly?

thefz 6y ago
The fact that one demographic is or is not statistically oppressed does not absolutely warrant for any of its members the impossibility of not being targeted or harassed. And there is a quite large movement of people online "bored" of white old dudes. Let alone the movement trying to undermine meritocracy in the name of inclusion via intersectionality.
ertian 6y ago
There's a huuuuge gap between "some prominent old white dudes might be targeted in specific communities" and "white guys are the most persecuted people on earth." When the Stallman thing was still fresh, I saw people online argue that it _didn't really matter_ whether Minsky actually did anything wrong, or whether it was inappropriate for Stallman to defend him. There are too many old white guys in prominent positions in tech, and reducing their numbers is a good thing. Sure it'll mess up Stallman's life, but whatever, that's a small price to pay for progress. In other words, explicitly: it's okay to target him, even if the accusations aren't correct, because he's an old white guy. I think that's something people really believe. I also think it's unfair, and shouldn't be tolerated. And yet...I don't believe anything _close_ to the argument you put in OP's mouth (and by extension, mine). No, white guys aren't even close to the most persecuted people on the planet--and yet, that doesn't make them immune from persecution in all forms, either. So: you attempted to rebut an argument by reducing it to a ridiculous caricature of itself. That's called a strawman.
- hutzlibu 6y ago
  You find ridiculus believes for allmost anything. Like flat earthers. But they usually don't have much power or influence. Implying that he was targeted because he was white and male, implies that those crazy people have a lot of power and influence - which means conspiracy. Now sure, conspiracies can be true, but you maybe know how they say, extra ordinary claims, require extra ordinary evidence.