4 ms·

Racing will move on to new technologies and hopefully drive development that enters the mainstream just as it does today for combustion engines

baybal2 6y ago
Electric powertrain is boring. You get 98.5% efficient electric motor with any amount of torque you want. Or you get another 98.5% efficient electric motor with any amount of torque you want. That's about all differentiating features.
- bayindirh 6y ago
  > Electric powertrain is boring. Tell this to Formula-e teams which found out that even a 1.5 degree difference in magnet placement can effect performance characteristics of motors tremendously. Similarly, thermal management of the same motors change their power characteristics enormously. They're trying to simulate and optimize these things in that boring cable spaghetti.
  - rad_gruchalski 6y ago
    Good luck entering a 24h race with an ev. Hydrogen is definitely a better platform for that.
    - bayindirh 6y ago
      If there's something I learnt over the years about any technology is making big claims about any technology is very risky. A small invention/progress/optimization would change everything about that technology. I'd rather have my popcorn and watch the competition.
      - rad_gruchalski 6y ago
        Yet everybody is making big claims about possible progress in ev technology without any grounding in reality. Do you see the flaw in your logic?
        bayindirh 6y ago
        If you read my comment again, you'll see that it's not implying anything. I'd rather watch the competition between EVs and hydrogen powered vehicles instead of making any claims. But, since you claim there's a flaw in my logic, let's remember some examples: First rechargeable batteries were NiCads. Low capacity, memory effect ridden inefficient and hard to charge sticks of energy. Today we have Li-Polys which charge faster, last longer, provide more current and can be formed into infinite forms. Moreover, we have experimental glass substrate batteries which are non-flammable and can be cut and damaged during operation (even with full charge) without any explosions or fumes. They continue to work even. People claimed that batteries cannot improve up to that point, yet we're here. While we're talking about energy, super capacitors were a thing of fiction, until they started to pop everywhere. ARM CPUs were always touted as slow, low power devices confined to IoT, light load servers and SBCs. X86 was claimed the undisputed king. Yet over iterations, Apple's M1 leaves more power consuming X86 chips in the dust. I use an M1 MacBook Air. I'd repeat the famous words in that Reddit comment: Black. Magic. Fuckery. M1 is literally it. Diesel, besides being dirty, always touted as high torque, low power devices. Yet we have formidable diesel cars racing in LeMans. Even most powerful Offshore racing boats were Lamborghini Marine diesels when I last looked. Linux was always touted as a toy operating system until five to ten years ago. Yet, Microsoft is providing Linux images in Azure, building SDN switches and backbone network on Debian, implementing WSL2 in lightning speed to prevent further market share slip and writing a lot of tools running on Linux and contributing to the Linux kernel to make sure that it plays nice with Windows. They've even ported SQL Server to that toy OS. Linux desktop is continuously claimed to be years away, but it happened already and it's improving steadily. It'd be another tech that people wouldn't have guessed that it'd improve that far. These are the examples I can remember for now. I'd edit or add another comment if I remember more. Edit: Changed "five" to "five to ten". Time flies.
    - llampx 6y ago
      The crashes would definitely draw more crowds with Hydrogen.
- gambiting 6y ago
  Literally none of the excitement in Formula 1 comes from drivers picking the optimium gear to get the maximum power out of the engine - they do it perfectly 99.99% of the time anyway. It's all about the driving style, risk vs reward when it comes to approaching corner, to overtaking, to tyre and fuel management - all F1 cars could swap for an electric engine tomorrow and nothing about this sport would change.
  - smolder 6y ago
    Perhaps F1 should skip that kind of electrification and go straight to virtualization, as an e-sport? :) I get your point about driver skill being the key currently, though I think F1 was most interesting when the optimal car for the ruleset was not so nailed down. That's what makes BattleBots interesting to me as a sport: design is a huge factor in the outcome. Electric F1 could bring back some diversity of design if the rules can be made flexible enough without compromising safety.
  - InitialLastName 6y ago
    That's not true, they would go much slower and be much heavier. Formula E uses a different layout at Monaco because the cars don't have the energy to make it up and down the hill enough times.

baybal2 6y ago

Electric powertrain is boring. You get 98.5% efficient electric motor with any amount of torque you want. Or you get another 98.5% efficient electric motor with any amount of torque you want. That's about all differentiating features.

bayindirh 6y ago
> Electric powertrain is boring. Tell this to Formula-e teams which found out that even a 1.5 degree difference in magnet placement can effect performance characteristics of motors tremendously. Similarly, thermal management of the same motors change their power characteristics enormously. They're trying to simulate and optimize these things in that boring cable spaghetti.
- rad_gruchalski 6y ago
  Good luck entering a 24h race with an ev. Hydrogen is definitely a better platform for that.
  - bayindirh 6y ago
    If there's something I learnt over the years about any technology is making big claims about any technology is very risky. A small invention/progress/optimization would change everything about that technology. I'd rather have my popcorn and watch the competition.
    - rad_gruchalski 6y ago
      Yet everybody is making big claims about possible progress in ev technology without any grounding in reality. Do you see the flaw in your logic?
      - bayindirh 6y ago
        If you read my comment again, you'll see that it's not implying anything. I'd rather watch the competition between EVs and hydrogen powered vehicles instead of making any claims. But, since you claim there's a flaw in my logic, let's remember some examples: First rechargeable batteries were NiCads. Low capacity, memory effect ridden inefficient and hard to charge sticks of energy. Today we have Li-Polys which charge faster, last longer, provide more current and can be formed into infinite forms. Moreover, we have experimental glass substrate batteries which are non-flammable and can be cut and damaged during operation (even with full charge) without any explosions or fumes. They continue to work even. People claimed that batteries cannot improve up to that point, yet we're here. While we're talking about energy, super capacitors were a thing of fiction, until they started to pop everywhere. ARM CPUs were always touted as slow, low power devices confined to IoT, light load servers and SBCs. X86 was claimed the undisputed king. Yet over iterations, Apple's M1 leaves more power consuming X86 chips in the dust. I use an M1 MacBook Air. I'd repeat the famous words in that Reddit comment: Black. Magic. Fuckery. M1 is literally it. Diesel, besides being dirty, always touted as high torque, low power devices. Yet we have formidable diesel cars racing in LeMans. Even most powerful Offshore racing boats were Lamborghini Marine diesels when I last looked. Linux was always touted as a toy operating system until five to ten years ago. Yet, Microsoft is providing Linux images in Azure, building SDN switches and backbone network on Debian, implementing WSL2 in lightning speed to prevent further market share slip and writing a lot of tools running on Linux and contributing to the Linux kernel to make sure that it plays nice with Windows. They've even ported SQL Server to that toy OS. Linux desktop is continuously claimed to be years away, but it happened already and it's improving steadily. It'd be another tech that people wouldn't have guessed that it'd improve that far. These are the examples I can remember for now. I'd edit or add another comment if I remember more. Edit: Changed "five" to "five to ten". Time flies.
  - llampx 6y ago
    The crashes would definitely draw more crowds with Hydrogen.
gambiting 6y ago
Literally none of the excitement in Formula 1 comes from drivers picking the optimium gear to get the maximum power out of the engine - they do it perfectly 99.99% of the time anyway. It's all about the driving style, risk vs reward when it comes to approaching corner, to overtaking, to tyre and fuel management - all F1 cars could swap for an electric engine tomorrow and nothing about this sport would change.
- smolder 6y ago
  Perhaps F1 should skip that kind of electrification and go straight to virtualization, as an e-sport? :) I get your point about driver skill being the key currently, though I think F1 was most interesting when the optimal car for the ruleset was not so nailed down. That's what makes BattleBots interesting to me as a sport: design is a huge factor in the outcome. Electric F1 could bring back some diversity of design if the rules can be made flexible enough without compromising safety.
- InitialLastName 6y ago
  That's not true, they would go much slower and be much heavier. Formula E uses a different layout at Monaco because the cars don't have the energy to make it up and down the hill enough times.