4 ms·

The US, most likely. >although I am not inside IR35 That's what I meant though, this is going to end soon. There will be no "outside IR35". One of the more fo

by hd4 6y ago

The US, most likely. >although I am not inside IR35 That's what I meant though, this is going to end soon. There will be no "outside IR35". One of the more foolish decisions of the UK state recently (and they're not lacking in that department).

Nursie 6y ago
> There will be no "outside IR35". If the end client decides it is so (and assumes liability), you can still be outside. If the end client is a "small business" then there is no change*. The best thing I can think of for those who want to continue to operate as an independent business is to actually become more business-like. Start a consultancy with a couple of like-minded individuals, based on your skills. Let clients and agents know you are available to deliver work on a fixed-cost basis, not join a project on a day rate. But I agree, the whole thing is a nasty mess, and it's going to screw a lot of people. (*though I imagine HMRC will be launching many more investigations into such small businesses. This is the bit that gets me, they leave a grey area in which you can get screwed).
- varispeed 6y ago
  There is no incentive to have contractor work on an outside basis because that gets too complex and has no tangible advantages for the client. The status determination process is also a fiction, because the client can specify relationship to meet the in-scope criteria in the contract and there is no room for appeal. Essentially a new class of employees without rights has been created.
  - Nursie 6y ago
    There is a financial incentive, if the client company is certain that the work they want done is outside, for instance if they are willing to completely cede control, and pay a lump sum for well defined work. Closer to real freelancing/consultancy than a lot of current 'contracting' positions. But yes I agree, that is what's happened. Umbrellas must be rubbing their hands with glee.

by hd4 6y ago

Nursie 6y ago

> There will be no "outside IR35". If the end client decides it is so (and assumes liability), you can still be outside. If the end client is a "small business" then there is no change*. The best thing I can think of for those who want to continue to operate as an independent business is to actually become more business-like. Start a consultancy with a couple of like-minded individuals, based on your skills. Let clients and agents know you are available to deliver work on a fixed-cost basis, not join a project on a day rate. But I agree, the whole thing is a nasty mess, and it's going to screw a lot of people. (*though I imagine HMRC will be launching many more investigations into such small businesses. This is the bit that gets me, they leave a grey area in which you can get screwed).

varispeed 6y ago
There is no incentive to have contractor work on an outside basis because that gets too complex and has no tangible advantages for the client. The status determination process is also a fiction, because the client can specify relationship to meet the in-scope criteria in the contract and there is no room for appeal. Essentially a new class of employees without rights has been created.
- Nursie 6y ago
  There is a financial incentive, if the client company is certain that the work they want done is outside, for instance if they are willing to completely cede control, and pay a lump sum for well defined work. Closer to real freelancing/consultancy than a lot of current 'contracting' positions. But yes I agree, that is what's happened. Umbrellas must be rubbing their hands with glee.