4 ms·

There's an even more limited need for fraud-promoting bankers, crooked and corrupt politicians, people who spend their entire lives gambling on the markets, and

There's an even more limited need for fraud-promoting bankers, crooked and corrupt politicians, people who spend their entire lives gambling on the markets, and organised criminals, but somehow we never seem to lack for all of those. This isn't some kind of rational market forces issue. Artists and intellectuals have real power. But starving them of cash, branding them "entertainers", and converting their jobs into a gig economy scramble guarantees they'll be too distracted to realise it. Not unlike other jobs.

michaelt 6y ago
> But starving them of cash, branding them "entertainers", and converting their jobs into a gig economy scramble guarantees they'll be too distracted to realise it. I'm no fan of the 'gig economy' - but haven't most musicians and writers and singers and sportspeople been getting a shitty deal since time immemorial? Just in the 1980s that meant putting years of unpaid practice into your craft then not being able to get a book deal / signed with a record label / a gallery to sell your paintings / a try out with the big team. I feel bad for someone who's struggling to make a living playing guitar on Twitch - but the fact it's hard to make money playing guitar isn't Twitch's fault.
- chillacy 6y ago
  I don’t know if there’s data to back this, but I suspect that musicians might have gotten a better deal before recording technology, since music performances would have to be hyper local, so there would be multiple markets for music instead of the one (almost global) market that exists today.
ajsnigrutin 6y ago
But how much do you personally pay for the artists' products per month, compared to how much you pay your bank? How many people actually pay anything for some specific artists' stuff, compared to some specific bank? Everybody needs a bank, and there are very few banks, with very few people who really earn a lot. Gambling is gambling.. most lose there. And the rest mentioned are a result of governents/police/court system not working. It's easy to say Bobby the youtuber deserves more money... actually paying him from your pocket is a totally different thing.
- hrktb 6y ago
  > But how much do you personally pay for the artists' products per month All in all, entertainment budget is a good amount actually. For the sake of the argument, it’s easier to set the time frame 30 years back, and talk about CDs and books we were buying. Record companies made decent money, publishers as well. People massively payed for physical distribution, there was only crappy workarounds. But most of that money didn’t go to artists, most of them were still working side jobs, while middlemen thrived. How different is it now ? I actually think it’s slightly better these days, but the biggest slice of the pie still go to middlemen who protect their position to keep the markets captive.
samvher 6y ago
I do think it's a market forces issue. But it's an issue where forces don't align with societal value (which I think is an extremely common problem in the modern economy). Back when musicians/publishers had real leverage over who could access their music/content by means of their control over the media holding these, it was in some ways easier for them to make money. It's the gatekeepers that manage to extract rents from the system, and it's hard for any single artist/intellectual to do anything about that, and if multiple try to do something about it together there's always going to be an incentive to defect or not join that effort in the first place.

michaelt 6y ago

> But starving them of cash, branding them "entertainers", and converting their jobs into a gig economy scramble guarantees they'll be too distracted to realise it. I'm no fan of the 'gig economy' - but haven't most musicians and writers and singers and sportspeople been getting a shitty deal since time immemorial? Just in the 1980s that meant putting years of unpaid practice into your craft then not being able to get a book deal / signed with a record label / a gallery to sell your paintings / a try out with the big team. I feel bad for someone who's struggling to make a living playing guitar on Twitch - but the fact it's hard to make money playing guitar isn't Twitch's fault.

chillacy 6y ago
I don’t know if there’s data to back this, but I suspect that musicians might have gotten a better deal before recording technology, since music performances would have to be hyper local, so there would be multiple markets for music instead of the one (almost global) market that exists today.

ajsnigrutin 6y ago

But how much do you personally pay for the artists' products per month, compared to how much you pay your bank? How many people actually pay anything for some specific artists' stuff, compared to some specific bank? Everybody needs a bank, and there are very few banks, with very few people who really earn a lot. Gambling is gambling.. most lose there. And the rest mentioned are a result of governents/police/court system not working. It's easy to say Bobby the youtuber deserves more money... actually paying him from your pocket is a totally different thing.

hrktb 6y ago
> But how much do you personally pay for the artists' products per month All in all, entertainment budget is a good amount actually. For the sake of the argument, it’s easier to set the time frame 30 years back, and talk about CDs and books we were buying. Record companies made decent money, publishers as well. People massively payed for physical distribution, there was only crappy workarounds. But most of that money didn’t go to artists, most of them were still working side jobs, while middlemen thrived. How different is it now ? I actually think it’s slightly better these days, but the biggest slice of the pie still go to middlemen who protect their position to keep the markets captive.

samvher 6y ago

I do think it's a market forces issue. But it's an issue where forces don't align with societal value (which I think is an extremely common problem in the modern economy). Back when musicians/publishers had real leverage over who could access their music/content by means of their control over the media holding these, it was in some ways easier for them to make money. It's the gatekeepers that manage to extract rents from the system, and it's hard for any single artist/intellectual to do anything about that, and if multiple try to do something about it together there's always going to be an incentive to defect or not join that effort in the first place.