5 ms·

Scientists Discover Cause of Blood Clots from AstraZeneca Covid-19 Vaccine

24 points by shezi 6y ago

libertine 6y ago
At what point will every major party - namely AstraZeneca - understand that what's being done in Europe, regarding these side effects, is the proper procedure, and refusing to acknowledge that will only cause more suspicion and fuel conspiracy theories? If this work wasn't being done, and shoved under the rug like apparently was done in the UK (that had at least 5 cases after all) and many other places that had similar cases but probably threw them in the blood clot bucket, imagine when later it was discovered that those numbers were higher then what they should have been? That's politics, not science - that's precisely the other way around of the whole accusations of all of this event being a political event. Hiding these cases is the political thing. Framing all of this as an attempt to discredit and compromise the vaccination effort is the political thing. Accusing these scientists of not knowing that every day of missed vaccination will increase the probability of other deaths is the political thing. Don't people have the right to be informed? Shouldn't people be making informed decisions? Shouldn't people be told what to do in case of a adverse reaction? Shouldn't they be treated and taken care of? Aren't they entitled to proper compensation in case this happens and it's attributed to the vaccine and not to some natural random event? None of these regulator bodies and scientists denied the vaccine was safe and effective, they simply spotted an anomaly and did what science should do. They found adverse reactions, have a strong indication of what causes it, and now will find a way to tackle it - saving more lives that would die a needless death, of people that were following their duty as citizens and choosing to take this vaccine for their safety and the safety of others, because they believe in the institutions that take care of vaccine and medicines safety. Well done.
- donovanian 6y ago
  > Don't people have the right to be informed? Fauci has been leading with every indication he's willing to speak lies if it makes people fall in line with his policy objectives.
  - egberts 6y ago
    Specially when It comes to Fauci commenting on about mask: on, off, not needed, on, double ...
    - donovanian 6y ago
      In my opinion the more egregious stuff is telling people they need to vaccinated and then saying that those vaccinated should still be masked. It's as though there's no difference. And there's a point I've seen outright admitted by the most ardent pro-mandate side: they want complete authoritarian conformity. Such that people are presented with a reality where the option of dissent never crosses peoples minds, since the iron fist of the public health establishment has whipped everyone into an obedient herd.
  - intpete 6y ago
    I hear injecting disinfectant cures COVID. This from a reliable source.
    - donovanian 6y ago
      I also heard Kamala Harris say that she'd never get vaccinated if Trump says to get vaccinated, cause he'd been rushing it to approval. And now you hear in the news rumblings about all the "vaccine hesitant" Trump supporters...as though the head honcho Democrats weren't fomenting distrust during the campaign and maligning the people they're now beseeching cooperation.
  - redis_mlc 6y ago
    Correct, Fauci is a bum - he admitted that he's only interested in covid-19 medical information, without context for any other public policy (educational, economic, non-corona health, etc.)
- NoPie 6y ago
  It is not how it happened at all. EMA looked at this and said – it is possible that these cases are related to vaccine but it doesn't change that the benefit overweighs risk and there was no reason to stop the vaccine. Informing patients about new rare side-effects of new drugs is done all the time. Normally there is no reason to suspend the drug globally every time a rare side effect happens.
  - libertine 6y ago
    >It is not how it happened at all. It's how it was communicated in the media, which might as well just be how it happened for the public opinion in many countries. I saw no USA/UK media outlet saying this is proper procedure, it's normal and happens all the time, and institutions are working as they should.
    - shezi 6y ago
      So you agree that this was a breakdown in procedure and reporting, instead of an actual case of something interesting happening? As a German, to me it feels a lot like politicians covering their assets instead of properly evaluating the situation.
      - libertine 6y ago
        This matter is of public interest, it just isn't reported often or at all, yet all eyes are on these vaccines, specially on a controversial one such as AZ vaccine. I can only see the recurring mistake mentioning generic "blood clots", and that "the vaccine doesn't cause blood clots", when the only ones talking about blood clots were media outlets, while the anomaly was always reported as low pallets causing bleeding and a specific type of clots. This is what happens when you try to control the narrative of events, you end up creating noise - because regulators from Norway, Dernmark, and many other countries will continue to report this because it's still happening, while media outlets, and the WHO have the narrative that everything is fine and this wasn't even a subject. Literally two narratives came from this event: - "the vaccine is safe and effective and doesn't cause blood clots", which is true and always was true and no one ever questioned it. - "there's an ongoing investigation because the vaccine is causing a specific adverse reaction in very few people, most prevalent in women under 50 years old", which is also true and doesn't contradict the first narrative. Now how the hell are common people supposed to know what to believe, when both narratives are true but seem to contradict each other? Why did they spin off the first narrative, when it only adds noise and confusion. It's just extremely bad journalism and PR.
viggity 6y ago
That's interesting that they said it was caused by overactive platelets. When I first heard about the AZ concerns a week or two ago, they specifically called out the clots as being abnormal because they had fewer platelets than they would expect.
- shezi 6y ago
  As far as I understand, this is actually a common side effect of SVT, where so many platelets accrete in the thrombosis that there is a measurable dip in available platelets.

24 points by shezi 6y ago

At what point will every major party - namely AstraZeneca - understand that what's being done in Europe, regarding these side effects, is the proper procedure, and refusing to acknowledge that will only cause more suspicion and fuel conspiracy theories? If this work wasn't being done, and shoved under the rug like apparently was done in the UK (that had at least 5 cases after all) and many other places that had similar cases but probably threw them in the blood clot bucket, imagine when later it was discovered that those numbers were higher then what they should have been? That's politics, not science - that's precisely the other way around of the whole accusations of all of this event being a political event. Hiding these cases is the political thing. Framing all of this as an attempt to discredit and compromise the vaccination effort is the political thing. Accusing these scientists of not knowing that every day of missed vaccination will increase the probability of other deaths is the political thing. Don't people have the right to be informed? Shouldn't people be making informed decisions? Shouldn't people be told what to do in case of a adverse reaction? Shouldn't they be treated and taken care of? Aren't they entitled to proper compensation in case this happens and it's attributed to the vaccine and not to some natural random event? None of these regulator bodies and scientists denied the vaccine was safe and effective, they simply spotted an anomaly and did what science should do. They found adverse reactions, have a strong indication of what causes it, and now will find a way to tackle it - saving more lives that would die a needless death, of people that were following their duty as citizens and choosing to take this vaccine for their safety and the safety of others, because they believe in the institutions that take care of vaccine and medicines safety. Well done.

donovanian 6y ago
> Don't people have the right to be informed? Fauci has been leading with every indication he's willing to speak lies if it makes people fall in line with his policy objectives.
- egberts 6y ago
  Specially when It comes to Fauci commenting on about mask: on, off, not needed, on, double ...
  - donovanian 6y ago
    In my opinion the more egregious stuff is telling people they need to vaccinated and then saying that those vaccinated should still be masked. It's as though there's no difference. And there's a point I've seen outright admitted by the most ardent pro-mandate side: they want complete authoritarian conformity. Such that people are presented with a reality where the option of dissent never crosses peoples minds, since the iron fist of the public health establishment has whipped everyone into an obedient herd.
- intpete 6y ago
  I hear injecting disinfectant cures COVID. This from a reliable source.
  - donovanian 6y ago
    I also heard Kamala Harris say that she'd never get vaccinated if Trump says to get vaccinated, cause he'd been rushing it to approval. And now you hear in the news rumblings about all the "vaccine hesitant" Trump supporters...as though the head honcho Democrats weren't fomenting distrust during the campaign and maligning the people they're now beseeching cooperation.
- redis_mlc 6y ago
  Correct, Fauci is a bum - he admitted that he's only interested in covid-19 medical information, without context for any other public policy (educational, economic, non-corona health, etc.)
NoPie 6y ago
It is not how it happened at all. EMA looked at this and said – it is possible that these cases are related to vaccine but it doesn't change that the benefit overweighs risk and there was no reason to stop the vaccine. Informing patients about new rare side-effects of new drugs is done all the time. Normally there is no reason to suspend the drug globally every time a rare side effect happens.
- libertine 6y ago
  >It is not how it happened at all. It's how it was communicated in the media, which might as well just be how it happened for the public opinion in many countries. I saw no USA/UK media outlet saying this is proper procedure, it's normal and happens all the time, and institutions are working as they should.
  - shezi 6y ago
    So you agree that this was a breakdown in procedure and reporting, instead of an actual case of something interesting happening? As a German, to me it feels a lot like politicians covering their assets instead of properly evaluating the situation.
    - libertine 6y ago
      This matter is of public interest, it just isn't reported often or at all, yet all eyes are on these vaccines, specially on a controversial one such as AZ vaccine. I can only see the recurring mistake mentioning generic "blood clots", and that "the vaccine doesn't cause blood clots", when the only ones talking about blood clots were media outlets, while the anomaly was always reported as low pallets causing bleeding and a specific type of clots. This is what happens when you try to control the narrative of events, you end up creating noise - because regulators from Norway, Dernmark, and many other countries will continue to report this because it's still happening, while media outlets, and the WHO have the narrative that everything is fine and this wasn't even a subject. Literally two narratives came from this event: - "the vaccine is safe and effective and doesn't cause blood clots", which is true and always was true and no one ever questioned it. - "there's an ongoing investigation because the vaccine is causing a specific adverse reaction in very few people, most prevalent in women under 50 years old", which is also true and doesn't contradict the first narrative. Now how the hell are common people supposed to know what to believe, when both narratives are true but seem to contradict each other? Why did they spin off the first narrative, when it only adds noise and confusion. It's just extremely bad journalism and PR.

viggity 6y ago

That's interesting that they said it was caused by overactive platelets. When I first heard about the AZ concerns a week or two ago, they specifically called out the clots as being abnormal because they had fewer platelets than they would expect.

shezi 6y ago
As far as I understand, this is actually a common side effect of SVT, where so many platelets accrete in the thrombosis that there is a measurable dip in available platelets.