5 ms·

Is it? They still have best earnings (post-tax) in Europe... You have to count in contractors though. Where are better offers than in the UK? I didn't find any

Is it? They still have best earnings (post-tax) in Europe... You have to count in contractors though. Where are better offers than in the UK? I didn't find any better even in Switzerland.

colesantiago 6y ago
> Where are better offers than in the UK? I didn't find any better even in Switzerland. India. Uber's doing very well there, lay the best engineers off and go there instead.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- iagovar 6y ago
  No offense, but you have to be quite adventurous for living in India.
noir_lord 6y ago
It's very heavily dependent on where you are in the UK though (as with most countries) the delta between best/worse places is quite large.
lmm 6y ago
> You have to count in contractors though. Who the UK government made a very deliberate effort to squeeze with the IR35 changes. Now they're shocked-pikachu-face-ing that those contractors are leaving.
yrgulation 6y ago
My thoughts exactly. No other european country pays as much as the uk for experienced tech workers. Although ir35 is taking a bite, from what i hear daily rates are going up to counterbalance the issue. However, the risk of outsourcing is real thanks to some silly measures.
goatinaboat 6y ago
Is it? They still have best earnings (post-tax) in Europe. This is skewed by the financial sector which out of necessity pays comparable wages to New York. The average programmer in the UK is just another office worker in terms of pay and status.
- burntoutfire 6y ago
  What is the necessity? In most of finance tech jobs you don't need domain knowledge. The UK financial companies are competing for devs with non-finance UK companies, not with Wall Street. I'm under the impression that they pay more than the rest of the UK because they can easily afford it and also to make sure the other silly industries don't get in their way of hiring the best people.
- colesantiago 6y ago
  This. If you're not FAANG, FTSE 100 or an engineer in the finance sector, your pay is similar to an entry level office IT worker.
  - bloqs 6y ago
    Pretty much this. Id say half the time in the FTSE100 its the same also
  - cameronh90 6y ago
    There are plenty of permanent individual contributor jobs in the £70-120k range in London. Not just FAANG/FTSE/finance either, plenty of funded start-ups and non-finance tech companies if you can't stomach finance. Outside of London, your statement is much closer to the truth. Lots of employers in Manchester for example are there principally to avoid paying London salaries. Honestly though, the day to day reality of programming in fintech is about the same as working in any other industry.
    - Nextgrid 6y ago
      120k permanent salary is meaningless because you’d fall into the higher tax brackets. Permanent employment tax is insane here.
fx32s 6y ago
Unsure where you get your quotes but Switzerland beats UK in post tax earnings by quite a margin according to data I found. Note that Switzerland has only a 20-25% effective tax. If you want decent money (not even NYC or Silicon Valley money which is not possible) you need to move to London at which point even 80-100k pounds (usually terminal salary for software engineers) does not give you the same savings rate or quality of life you'd get elsewhere. The same problem can be highlighted for many expensive places in europe which is why there is such a brain drain for top talent.
- gpderetta 6y ago
  You can get significantly more than 100k in London. And even at that price, life would be quite comfortable (but of course COL is still significantly higher than many other places).
  - cutler 6y ago
    A handful of 10x devs earning 100k doesn't address the general skills shortage. In fact I'd say the overemphasis on top-tier talent in the tech sector exacerbates the problem.
  - Nextgrid 6y ago
    Life can be comfortable but it’s not sustainable. You can indeed be comfortable if you spend all that money on rent + lifestyle, but it’s just not enough to actually buy a property in a reasonable amount of time.

Is it? They still have best earnings (post-tax) in Europe... You have to count in contractors though. Where are better offers than in the UK? I didn't find any better even in Switzerland.

colesantiago 6y ago

> Where are better offers than in the UK? I didn't find any better even in Switzerland. India. Uber's doing very well there, lay the best engineers off and go there instead.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
iagovar 6y ago
No offense, but you have to be quite adventurous for living in India.

noir_lord 6y ago

It's very heavily dependent on where you are in the UK though (as with most countries) the delta between best/worse places is quite large.

lmm 6y ago

> You have to count in contractors though. Who the UK government made a very deliberate effort to squeeze with the IR35 changes. Now they're shocked-pikachu-face-ing that those contractors are leaving.

yrgulation 6y ago

My thoughts exactly. No other european country pays as much as the uk for experienced tech workers. Although ir35 is taking a bite, from what i hear daily rates are going up to counterbalance the issue. However, the risk of outsourcing is real thanks to some silly measures.

goatinaboat 6y ago

Is it? They still have best earnings (post-tax) in Europe. This is skewed by the financial sector which out of necessity pays comparable wages to New York. The average programmer in the UK is just another office worker in terms of pay and status.

burntoutfire 6y ago
What is the necessity? In most of finance tech jobs you don't need domain knowledge. The UK financial companies are competing for devs with non-finance UK companies, not with Wall Street. I'm under the impression that they pay more than the rest of the UK because they can easily afford it and also to make sure the other silly industries don't get in their way of hiring the best people.
colesantiago 6y ago
This. If you're not FAANG, FTSE 100 or an engineer in the finance sector, your pay is similar to an entry level office IT worker.
- bloqs 6y ago
  Pretty much this. Id say half the time in the FTSE100 its the same also
- cameronh90 6y ago
  There are plenty of permanent individual contributor jobs in the £70-120k range in London. Not just FAANG/FTSE/finance either, plenty of funded start-ups and non-finance tech companies if you can't stomach finance. Outside of London, your statement is much closer to the truth. Lots of employers in Manchester for example are there principally to avoid paying London salaries. Honestly though, the day to day reality of programming in fintech is about the same as working in any other industry.
  - Nextgrid 6y ago
    120k permanent salary is meaningless because you’d fall into the higher tax brackets. Permanent employment tax is insane here.

fx32s 6y ago

Unsure where you get your quotes but Switzerland beats UK in post tax earnings by quite a margin according to data I found. Note that Switzerland has only a 20-25% effective tax. If you want decent money (not even NYC or Silicon Valley money which is not possible) you need to move to London at which point even 80-100k pounds (usually terminal salary for software engineers) does not give you the same savings rate or quality of life you'd get elsewhere. The same problem can be highlighted for many expensive places in europe which is why there is such a brain drain for top talent.

gpderetta 6y ago
You can get significantly more than 100k in London. And even at that price, life would be quite comfortable (but of course COL is still significantly higher than many other places).
- cutler 6y ago
  A handful of 10x devs earning 100k doesn't address the general skills shortage. In fact I'd say the overemphasis on top-tier talent in the tech sector exacerbates the problem.
- Nextgrid 6y ago
  Life can be comfortable but it’s not sustainable. You can indeed be comfortable if you spend all that money on rent + lifestyle, but it’s just not enough to actually buy a property in a reasonable amount of time.