3 ms·

I suspect the first thing that's needed is a publicly accessible breakdown of public spending. Really quickly I imagine it would be clear what needs to be expla

I suspect the first thing that's needed is a publicly accessible breakdown of public spending. Really quickly I imagine it would be clear what needs to be explained or not. https://council.nyc.gov/budget/wp-content/uploads/sites/54/2020/03/072-DOC.pdf https://council.nyc.gov/budget/wp-content/uploads/sites/54/2... This looks like a good place to start Jail Operations: $1.1 billion Operations -Rikers Security & Operations: $37.1 million Operations -Infrastructure & Environmental Health: $41.1 million Health and Programs: $48.7million Operations -Hospital Prison Ward: $13.7 million Administration -Academy & Training: $17.7 million Administration -Management & Administration: $97.4 million After spending a while with wikipedia going through citations and some other things I arrived at: https://comptroller.nyc.gov/reports/nyc-department-of-correction/ https://comptroller.nyc.gov/reports/nyc-department-of-correc... You can see a department of corrections cost which is roughly the first document divided by incarcerated individuals, as well as an additional cost which is almost double the Department of Corrections cost, which is stated as: Fringe Benefits, Pensions, and Medical Services If I had to make a guess Pensions seem pretty suspicious. On this website: https://www.seethroughny.net/pensions/126507913 https://www.seethroughny.net/pensions/126507913 2019 DOC pensions results in: 13,619 Results Total: $582,352,875 Here we can see "fringe" benefits: https://www1.nyc.gov/site/jointheboldest/officer/salary-benefits.page https://www1.nyc.gov/site/jointheboldest/officer/salary-bene... So working staff from the original document is 9,714, 600mil is pensions for 13.5k people, leaving something like 1.8 bil for those 9,714 employees, facilities, programs, training, etc. Which is roughly 185k per person. That doesn't seem too terribly outrageous to me. Why are there so many staff despite decreasing jail population seems like the most pressing question, but nothing I've read so far shouts outrageous corruption.

fallingknife 6y ago
They are paying pensions for 13.5K people, but only have 10K employees?
- bobthepanda 6y ago
  A Google search shows that Corrections in NYC receives pension benefits after 20 years, or 22 years if employed after April 1, 2012. Life expectancies are pretty long these days and 20 years is not all that long.
- hayst4ck 6y ago
  I think I misunderstood pensions. I suppose it is much more like a 401k, so when it says pension, that's probably almost exactly a 401k deposit except to NYSCR: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_State_Common_Retirement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_State_Common_Retireme... Guess these things are rather hard to understand as a financial layman. I don't know which interpretation is correct, or if something else is more correct.
  - socialist_coder 6y ago
    A pension pays you a fixed rate per year until you die. Very different from a 401k. And that is why all these government entities have such hefty pension responsibilities. It seems absolutely stupid. Like, just do the math. What did these people think were going to happen 50 years down the road?
    - jfengel 6y ago
      For a number of years, it was a tactic for resolving impasses between labor and management. Labor would accept a lower salary in exchange for a pension -- funded by expected growth rather than an investment account. Everybody wins. Workers get a safe retirement. Management gets to hold the line on salaries. Oops. It might even have worked, if growth had continued the way it did in the 50s and 60s, where there was often 5% GDP growth. Then came the 80s. Things have leveled off at a reasonable 2% growth, but that's not enough to support all of these pensions. But the pension plans were promises, and not contingent on that. So it's not quite as stupid as it sounded. But it's still pretty stupid. Everybody thought they were taking advantage of the other side.

fallingknife 6y ago

They are paying pensions for 13.5K people, but only have 10K employees?

bobthepanda 6y ago
A Google search shows that Corrections in NYC receives pension benefits after 20 years, or 22 years if employed after April 1, 2012. Life expectancies are pretty long these days and 20 years is not all that long.
hayst4ck 6y ago
I think I misunderstood pensions. I suppose it is much more like a 401k, so when it says pension, that's probably almost exactly a 401k deposit except to NYSCR: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_State_Common_Retirement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_State_Common_Retireme... Guess these things are rather hard to understand as a financial layman. I don't know which interpretation is correct, or if something else is more correct.
- socialist_coder 6y ago
  A pension pays you a fixed rate per year until you die. Very different from a 401k. And that is why all these government entities have such hefty pension responsibilities. It seems absolutely stupid. Like, just do the math. What did these people think were going to happen 50 years down the road?
  - jfengel 6y ago
    For a number of years, it was a tactic for resolving impasses between labor and management. Labor would accept a lower salary in exchange for a pension -- funded by expected growth rather than an investment account. Everybody wins. Workers get a safe retirement. Management gets to hold the line on salaries. Oops. It might even have worked, if growth had continued the way it did in the 50s and 60s, where there was often 5% GDP growth. Then came the 80s. Things have leveled off at a reasonable 2% growth, but that's not enough to support all of these pensions. But the pension plans were promises, and not contingent on that. So it's not quite as stupid as it sounded. But it's still pretty stupid. Everybody thought they were taking advantage of the other side.