11 ms·

> But at the same time RMS has been attacked for some statements very probably stemming from his autism tha rms has repeatedly said he does not suffer from au

> But at the same time RMS has been attacked for some statements very probably stemming from his autism tha rms has repeatedly said he does not suffer from autism. Even if he did, there is nothing about autism that compels you to try and legitimize child sexual offenders.

nobody9999 6y ago
>Even if he did, there is nothing about autism that compels you to try and legitimize child sexual offenders. Where, exactly, did RMS do so? This isn't a troll or a "gotcha" either. All the claims about RMS doing so are from now public statements by RMS. Please provide (with appropriate context) evidence for the assertion that RMS tried to "legitimize child sexual offenders." If you perform that exercise in good faith, you'll find that there is no evidence that RMS did (or attempted) any such thing. I don't know RMS, nor am I associated with any organization with which he is or ever was associated. In fact, I was quite angry when I read the accusations against him. But rather than take the word of others, I read his statements, in context, and came to the conclusion that those accusations were both false and sensationalized. I have my suspicions as to why those false and sensationalized accusations were made, but I won't do what those who sought to portray Stallman as an advocate for pedophilia, rape and assault did. I'll let others make up their own minds as to the motivations of the folks who sought to amplify such claims. Edit: Clarified the reasons for not airing my suspicions in this comment.
- pseudalopex 6y ago
  Stallman said pedophilia is "illegal only because of prejudice and narrowmindedness".[1] He must have meant the act because the paraphilia isn't illegal. He dismissed people who believe children can't consent as "parents who are horrified by the idea that their little baby is maturing".[2] He didn't mean adolescents.[3] Having sex with a child is an offense in most countries.[4] Offender means someone who commits an offense. [1] https://stallman.org/archives/2003-may-aug.html#28%20June%202003%20 https://stallman.org/archives/2003-may-aug.html#28%20June%20...() [2] https://www.stallman.org/archives/2006-may-aug.html#05%20June%202006%20%28Dutch%20paedophiles%20form%20political%20party%29 https://www.stallman.org/archives/2006-may-aug.html#05%20Jun... [3] https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jan-apr.html#25_April_2019_(Plea_deal_for_Epstein) https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jan-apr.html#25_April_201...
  - nobody9999 6y ago
    You have ignored and omitted context from each of the statements you linked above. And so I can only assume you're not posting in good faith. That's sad, as it's something I really like about HN. I had responded in detail to each of the claims you made and expounded on the fact that age of consent is wildly different in all those countries you mention. Sadly, it was all lost with a <ctrl>-w[1] in Firefox. In fact, in 20 US states, there is no lower limit on the age of marriage[0], which explicitly allows sexual activity. I don't expect anything from you. I'm just disappointed in the (I can only assume deliberate) way you omitted and distorted Stallman's statements to suit your point of view. That's sad. [0] https://www.equalitynow.org/learn_more_child_marriage_us https://www.equalitynow.org/learn_more_child_marriage_us [1] https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1238895 https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1238895
    - pseudalopex 6y ago
      I'm not trying to convince you. You already said no one could reach a different conclusion in good faith. I linked Stallman's comments so other people can decide for themselves. Maybe you don't like I only mentioned in passing Stallman said anything about consent. But it's irrelevant to the claim he didn't advocate pedophilia. And now he understands why people say children can't consent.[1] Your source says 20 states have no minimum age "with a parental or judicial waiver". You left out that detail. The minimum age without a waiver is 18 or over in all states.[2] Wikipedia's source says only 13 states don't have a statutory minimum age. And at least 1 of them has a minimum age through case law.[3] This usually affects but doesn't necessarily eliminate the age of consent. California has a law against "any lewd or lascivious act" with a child under 14 for example. Spouses aren't exempt.[4] I didn't mention any countries. But Wikipedia listed only 4 countries with a general age of consent below 13. So almost the whole world agrees adults having sex with children is wrong. Even though they don't agree when adolescents are mature enough. [1] https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#14_September_2019_(Sex_between_an_adult_and_a_child_is_wrong) https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#14_September... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_age_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_age_in_the_United_Sta... [3] https://www.tahirih.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/State-Statutory-Compilation_Final_July-2019.pdf https://www.tahirih.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/State-Sta... [4] https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=PEN&sectionNum=288 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySectio....

nobody9999 6y ago

>Even if he did, there is nothing about autism that compels you to try and legitimize child sexual offenders. Where, exactly, did RMS do so? This isn't a troll or a "gotcha" either. All the claims about RMS doing so are from now public statements by RMS. Please provide (with appropriate context) evidence for the assertion that RMS tried to "legitimize child sexual offenders." If you perform that exercise in good faith, you'll find that there is no evidence that RMS did (or attempted) any such thing. I don't know RMS, nor am I associated with any organization with which he is or ever was associated. In fact, I was quite angry when I read the accusations against him. But rather than take the word of others, I read his statements, in context, and came to the conclusion that those accusations were both false and sensationalized. I have my suspicions as to why those false and sensationalized accusations were made, but I won't do what those who sought to portray Stallman as an advocate for pedophilia, rape and assault did. I'll let others make up their own minds as to the motivations of the folks who sought to amplify such claims. Edit: Clarified the reasons for not airing my suspicions in this comment.

pseudalopex 6y ago
Stallman said pedophilia is "illegal only because of prejudice and narrowmindedness".[1] He must have meant the act because the paraphilia isn't illegal. He dismissed people who believe children can't consent as "parents who are horrified by the idea that their little baby is maturing".[2] He didn't mean adolescents.[3] Having sex with a child is an offense in most countries.[4] Offender means someone who commits an offense. [1] https://stallman.org/archives/2003-may-aug.html#28%20June%202003%20 https://stallman.org/archives/2003-may-aug.html#28%20June%20...() [2] https://www.stallman.org/archives/2006-may-aug.html#05%20June%202006%20%28Dutch%20paedophiles%20form%20political%20party%29 https://www.stallman.org/archives/2006-may-aug.html#05%20Jun... [3] https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jan-apr.html#25_April_2019_(Plea_deal_for_Epstein) https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jan-apr.html#25_April_201...
- nobody9999 6y ago
  You have ignored and omitted context from each of the statements you linked above. And so I can only assume you're not posting in good faith. That's sad, as it's something I really like about HN. I had responded in detail to each of the claims you made and expounded on the fact that age of consent is wildly different in all those countries you mention. Sadly, it was all lost with a <ctrl>-w[1] in Firefox. In fact, in 20 US states, there is no lower limit on the age of marriage[0], which explicitly allows sexual activity. I don't expect anything from you. I'm just disappointed in the (I can only assume deliberate) way you omitted and distorted Stallman's statements to suit your point of view. That's sad. [0] https://www.equalitynow.org/learn_more_child_marriage_us https://www.equalitynow.org/learn_more_child_marriage_us [1] https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1238895 https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1238895
  - pseudalopex 6y ago
    I'm not trying to convince you. You already said no one could reach a different conclusion in good faith. I linked Stallman's comments so other people can decide for themselves. Maybe you don't like I only mentioned in passing Stallman said anything about consent. But it's irrelevant to the claim he didn't advocate pedophilia. And now he understands why people say children can't consent.[1] Your source says 20 states have no minimum age "with a parental or judicial waiver". You left out that detail. The minimum age without a waiver is 18 or over in all states.[2] Wikipedia's source says only 13 states don't have a statutory minimum age. And at least 1 of them has a minimum age through case law.[3] This usually affects but doesn't necessarily eliminate the age of consent. California has a law against "any lewd or lascivious act" with a child under 14 for example. Spouses aren't exempt.[4] I didn't mention any countries. But Wikipedia listed only 4 countries with a general age of consent below 13. So almost the whole world agrees adults having sex with children is wrong. Even though they don't agree when adolescents are mature enough. [1] https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#14_September_2019_(Sex_between_an_adult_and_a_child_is_wrong) https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#14_September... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_age_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_age_in_the_United_Sta... [3] https://www.tahirih.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/State-Statutory-Compilation_Final_July-2019.pdf https://www.tahirih.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/State-Sta... [4] https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=PEN&sectionNum=288 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySectio....