6 ms·

Great quote. I think a large fraction of male programmers would disagree with Selam Jie Gano's characterization of RMS's statements. These kinds of "culture war

Great quote. I think a large fraction of male programmers would disagree with Selam Jie Gano's characterization of RMS's statements. These kinds of "culture war" battles should not be happening in GNU. Free Software should be happening and people should be willing to leave these disagreements at the door. If you aren't, I am significantly less interested in working with you and I suspect many GNU contributors are as well.

boomboomsubban 6y ago
I don't get this. "You should abandon any other ideals you have when working for our ideological project."
- themacguffinman 6y ago
  The point of an ideological project (or any project, really) is to try and get everyone pulling in the same direction. GNU/FSF is an organization for one specific ideal: free software. It's not intended as a vehicle for any random ideal people care about.
  - boomboomsubban 6y ago
    >It's not intended as a vehicle for any random ideal people care about. Who used it like that? Stallman's comments happened outside the organization, the tweet was from someone I think unrelated to the project. I can understand keeping other ideals out of the project, but in context you're telling people not to express other ideals.
    - themacguffinman 6y ago
      > the tweet was from someone I think unrelated to the project Seems fine for unrelated Twitter randos to say whatever they want about RMS, but would be distracting and counterproductive for GNU/FSF to permanently ban RMS in support of Twitter randos' unrelated ideals. I never said or implied anything about stopping Twitter randos from expressing or doing whatever they want.
      - boomboomsubban 6y ago
        I was asking you who used it as a vehicle... as the two people directly being discussed had not. I did not think you were trying to stop random people on twitter. I think you're answering that GNU/FSF used it improperly but am not certain.
        themacguffinman 6y ago
        Yes, the people working for GNU/FSF started using GNU/FSF to punish RMS in support of other ideals. Twitter randos may have talked about it but it's up to the GNU/FSF to focus & act on it.
    - RangerNS 6y ago
      ... in the name of the organization. And RMS's "pleasure cards" listing his office address and organizational email certainly indicate that his private activities are the organizations activities.
      - boomboomsubban 6y ago
        Yes, he should have been reprimanded for using the organization's name to make a bad joke seemingly decades ago.
- zajio1am 6y ago
  Basic compartmentalization. If i have ideological goals A, B, C, then i can work on goal A with people who are indifferent or against B, C, and also work on goal B with people who are indifferent or against A, C, instead of trying to find people in intersection of A, B, C.
  - kaba0 6y ago
    I doubt people can compartmentalize things that are in vehement disagreement with their core values. Would Stallman work on implementing a DRM? And not in this case, but what about someone denying the other’s existence? Actively supporting groups that work on restricting someone’s basic rights? (Mozilla with Eich)
    - zajio1am 6y ago
      > Would Stallman work on implementing a DRM? It is a big difference working on A with people i disagree about B, and actively working against one's values. I can work with non-vegetarians on software, but i would not work in slaughterhouse. > And not in this case, but what about someone denying the other’s existence? As an LGBT person (and pro same-sex marriage), i think that mixing up 'being against same-sex marriage' and 'denying the other’s existence' is just horrible rhetorical device, fear-mongering about opponent's position.
      - kaba0 6y ago
        I don’t see what are you disagreeing with. I only mentioned the Mozilla case, but I was talking about the topic in general. Vehemently disagreeing with something is not working with vegans/non-vegans. Denying the other’s existence in case of trans people is unfortunately quite common. Do you think a Jewish person can work together with a nazi?
        DreamScatter 6y ago
        Wasn't Hitler partly a jew also?

boomboomsubban 6y ago

I don't get this. "You should abandon any other ideals you have when working for our ideological project."

themacguffinman 6y ago
The point of an ideological project (or any project, really) is to try and get everyone pulling in the same direction. GNU/FSF is an organization for one specific ideal: free software. It's not intended as a vehicle for any random ideal people care about.
- boomboomsubban 6y ago
  >It's not intended as a vehicle for any random ideal people care about. Who used it like that? Stallman's comments happened outside the organization, the tweet was from someone I think unrelated to the project. I can understand keeping other ideals out of the project, but in context you're telling people not to express other ideals.
  - themacguffinman 6y ago
    > the tweet was from someone I think unrelated to the project Seems fine for unrelated Twitter randos to say whatever they want about RMS, but would be distracting and counterproductive for GNU/FSF to permanently ban RMS in support of Twitter randos' unrelated ideals. I never said or implied anything about stopping Twitter randos from expressing or doing whatever they want.
    - boomboomsubban 6y ago
      I was asking you who used it as a vehicle... as the two people directly being discussed had not. I did not think you were trying to stop random people on twitter. I think you're answering that GNU/FSF used it improperly but am not certain.
      - themacguffinman 6y ago
        Yes, the people working for GNU/FSF started using GNU/FSF to punish RMS in support of other ideals. Twitter randos may have talked about it but it's up to the GNU/FSF to focus & act on it.
  - RangerNS 6y ago
    ... in the name of the organization. And RMS's "pleasure cards" listing his office address and organizational email certainly indicate that his private activities are the organizations activities.
    - boomboomsubban 6y ago
      Yes, he should have been reprimanded for using the organization's name to make a bad joke seemingly decades ago.
zajio1am 6y ago
Basic compartmentalization. If i have ideological goals A, B, C, then i can work on goal A with people who are indifferent or against B, C, and also work on goal B with people who are indifferent or against A, C, instead of trying to find people in intersection of A, B, C.
- kaba0 6y ago
  I doubt people can compartmentalize things that are in vehement disagreement with their core values. Would Stallman work on implementing a DRM? And not in this case, but what about someone denying the other’s existence? Actively supporting groups that work on restricting someone’s basic rights? (Mozilla with Eich)
  - zajio1am 6y ago
    > Would Stallman work on implementing a DRM? It is a big difference working on A with people i disagree about B, and actively working against one's values. I can work with non-vegetarians on software, but i would not work in slaughterhouse. > And not in this case, but what about someone denying the other’s existence? As an LGBT person (and pro same-sex marriage), i think that mixing up 'being against same-sex marriage' and 'denying the other’s existence' is just horrible rhetorical device, fear-mongering about opponent's position.
    - kaba0 6y ago
      I don’t see what are you disagreeing with. I only mentioned the Mozilla case, but I was talking about the topic in general. Vehemently disagreeing with something is not working with vegans/non-vegans. Denying the other’s existence in case of trans people is unfortunately quite common. Do you think a Jewish person can work together with a nazi?
      - DreamScatter 6y ago
        Wasn't Hitler partly a jew also?