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We do have real world results, and they’re mostly very good. For example, analysis of the real world effectiveness of the Pfizer vaccine in Israel: > The lates

by yashap 6y ago

We do have real world results, and they’re mostly very good. For example, analysis of the real world effectiveness of the Pfizer vaccine in Israel: > The latest analysis from the MoH proves that two weeks after the second vaccine dose protection is even stronger – vaccine effectiveness was at least 97% in preventing symptomatic disease, severe/critical disease and death. https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/real-world-evidence-confirms-high-effectiveness-pfizer https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-deta... The AstraZeneca vaccine looks not so good, especially against the South African variant, but the early real world results for the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines look outstanding, and the Johnson & Johnson vaccine looks solid.

Baeocystin 6y ago
Do we have any educated guesses on why we see a difference between the J&J shot and the AZ one? Is it just luck of the draw regarding different adenovirus vectors, or something deeper?
- markus92 6y ago
  For one, AZ doesn’t use the pre-fusion stabilized spike protein in their vector, while the mRNA and J&J vaccines do.
- Gibbon1 6y ago
  Disclaimer no experience with vaccine development but... Two problems with some types of engineered vaccines. The first is people can have existing immunity to some component of the vaccine. And the immune system wipes out the vaccine before it has a chance to generate strong immunity. Second people develop immunity to proteins in the vaccine that aren't present in pathogen you're trying to vaccinate against. As an example I think one of the vaccines based on modified viruses uses a different virus in the first and second shot.
  - foobiekr 6y ago
    On the latter, you mean the sputnik vaccine.
Mediterraneo10 6y ago
Note however that Israel has closed its borders tightly, so Israel can't tell us much about the vaccines' effects on variants that haven't entered that country yet.
- toolz 6y ago
  I've only seen reporting suggesting that every variant listed as a "variant of concern" from the CDC is present in Israel. So their data should be good.
  - sampo 6y ago
    > I've only seen reporting suggesting that every variant listed as a "variant of concern" from the CDC is present in Israel. But not present in large numbers now, so we have to wait months before we'll know if they'll be able to spread in the vaccinated population or not.
sampo 6y ago
> The AstraZeneca vaccine looks not so good This study, from Scotland, looks at risk of hospitalization after first dose of either Pfizer or AstraZeneca vaccine. The Pfizer and AstraZeneca vaccines look equally good. If anything, in the raw numbers AstraZeneca looks a little better that Pfizer, but the difference is well inside error bars. https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n523 https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n523 > especially against the South African variant There is this one study, a proper randomized controlled trial from South Africa with 2000 people. But it only studies the AstraZeneca vaccine. They only saw mild (15 vaccine recipients and 17 placebo recipients) or moderate (4 vaccine recipients and 6 placebo recipients) infections, so they can not say anything about severe disease, because no one got it. And they only studied AstraZeneca. Unfortunately, this study has been giving AstraZeneca maybe an undeservedly bad reputation, as media goes around saying that AstraZeneca specifically is not effective against the B.1.351 variant, suggesting that other vaccines would be. But as far as I know, similar studies of other vaccines do not exist, so we just don't know yet if they would be, maybe, equally bad against the B.1.351 variant or not. https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMoa2102214 https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMoa2102214
helge9210 6y ago
> analysis of the real world effectiveness of the Pfizer vaccine in Israel: In Israel vaccinated population is not tested for COVID-19 unless admitted to hospital in serious condition. In the past two month 22% of those who died because of COVID-19 have received both doses of the Pfizer vaccine. MoH refuses to clarify further on testing policies and outcomes.

by yashap 6y ago

Baeocystin 6y ago

Do we have any educated guesses on why we see a difference between the J&J shot and the AZ one? Is it just luck of the draw regarding different adenovirus vectors, or something deeper?

markus92 6y ago
For one, AZ doesn’t use the pre-fusion stabilized spike protein in their vector, while the mRNA and J&J vaccines do.
Gibbon1 6y ago
Disclaimer no experience with vaccine development but... Two problems with some types of engineered vaccines. The first is people can have existing immunity to some component of the vaccine. And the immune system wipes out the vaccine before it has a chance to generate strong immunity. Second people develop immunity to proteins in the vaccine that aren't present in pathogen you're trying to vaccinate against. As an example I think one of the vaccines based on modified viruses uses a different virus in the first and second shot.
- foobiekr 6y ago
  On the latter, you mean the sputnik vaccine.

Mediterraneo10 6y ago

Note however that Israel has closed its borders tightly, so Israel can't tell us much about the vaccines' effects on variants that haven't entered that country yet.

toolz 6y ago
I've only seen reporting suggesting that every variant listed as a "variant of concern" from the CDC is present in Israel. So their data should be good.
- sampo 6y ago
  > I've only seen reporting suggesting that every variant listed as a "variant of concern" from the CDC is present in Israel. But not present in large numbers now, so we have to wait months before we'll know if they'll be able to spread in the vaccinated population or not.

sampo 6y ago

> The AstraZeneca vaccine looks not so good This study, from Scotland, looks at risk of hospitalization after first dose of either Pfizer or AstraZeneca vaccine. The Pfizer and AstraZeneca vaccines look equally good. If anything, in the raw numbers AstraZeneca looks a little better that Pfizer, but the difference is well inside error bars. https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n523 https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n523 > especially against the South African variant There is this one study, a proper randomized controlled trial from South Africa with 2000 people. But it only studies the AstraZeneca vaccine. They only saw mild (15 vaccine recipients and 17 placebo recipients) or moderate (4 vaccine recipients and 6 placebo recipients) infections, so they can not say anything about severe disease, because no one got it. And they only studied AstraZeneca. Unfortunately, this study has been giving AstraZeneca maybe an undeservedly bad reputation, as media goes around saying that AstraZeneca specifically is not effective against the B.1.351 variant, suggesting that other vaccines would be. But as far as I know, similar studies of other vaccines do not exist, so we just don't know yet if they would be, maybe, equally bad against the B.1.351 variant or not. https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMoa2102214 https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMoa2102214

helge9210 6y ago

> analysis of the real world effectiveness of the Pfizer vaccine in Israel: In Israel vaccinated population is not tested for COVID-19 unless admitted to hospital in serious condition. In the past two month 22% of those who died because of COVID-19 have received both doses of the Pfizer vaccine. MoH refuses to clarify further on testing policies and outcomes.