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Can people for once stop virtue signalling like plastic bags bans or estimating carbon footprint of bitcoin transactions and finally get to the root of the prob

Can people for once stop virtue signalling like plastic bags bans or estimating carbon footprint of bitcoin transactions and finally get to the root of the problem: fixing failed states? Because in the course of you planting a single tree some corrupt government destroys a whole ecosystem.

billytetrud 6y ago
Yes please. Better representation in democracies, and real democracies where fake ones currently exist.
- therealdrag0 6y ago
  Does representation fix environmental issues? I know lots of people who don’t give a second thought about the environment.
thaumaturgy 6y ago
This argument is never productive. I can use fewer plastic bags. I can plant trees (or pay to plant trees, whatever). I can't fix a failed state. Offer actionable and measurable alternatives.
- IngvarLynn 6y ago
  You can plant a tree but You can't plant a forest. You can't fix a failed state. But You can educate yourself (and others) on what the hell is happening with this world and vote for representative that cares.
  - dillondoyle 6y ago
    One man did plant a forest! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jadav_Payeng https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jadav_Payeng https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2017/12/26/572421590/hed-take-his-own-life-before-killing-a-tree-meet-india-s-forest-man https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2017/12/26/572421590/... I agree with what you are saying but I think it can also extend to planting trees, use the power you do have and vote which can make big change beyond ourselves.
  - jk7tarYZAQNpTQa 6y ago
    > You can plant a tree but You can't plant a forest. Of course you can plant a forest. But there's no need to. If each one of us plant 1 tree per month, we would be planting thousands of forests as a result of our team effort. We need an international Tree Planting Day. And we need to celebrate the fuck out of it.
    - azornathogron 6y ago
      Many people don't own suitable land on which they could do such a thing (certainly I don't), and if you're talking about going and planting a tree somewhere as part of a larger project run by some organization that has acquired the land for the purpose then... sure, ok, but it'll be far more efficient to pay a bunch of people to work full time planting many trees every day, rather than each one of us individually driving out to a planting site once a month to plant one tree (assuming there's even a site within a day's drive). I'm all for reforestation projects (and many other projects that could potentially have some kind of impact in reducing the rate atmospheric CO2 levels are rising), but the idea of everyone individually planting trees is not really practical. If you personally are in a situation that makes it feasible for you, then I hope you go for it and I wish you all the best.
    - quesera 6y ago
      > We need an international Tree Planting Day. Done! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbor_Day https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbor_Day
- Trasmatta 6y ago
  > I can't fix a failed state No, but you can get involved politically, and support policies and legislation that will make a difference.
dheera 6y ago
I'm not sure when "virtue signalling" became the new buzzword to attack people with. It seems these days that if you don't like someone you accuse them of virtue signalling, and if I understand the term correcty, accusing anyone of virtue signalling is itself a form of virtue signalling. Yes, I realize, this is an ironic paragraph, because I'm virtue signalling by accusing you of accusing someone else of virtue signalling. Now onto the actual topic -- While I agree with you that fixing failed states should be of utmost concern I don't think it's a bad thing to be banning plastic items now, one at a time, because we don't currently have a good way to truly recycle plastic, and the material should be avoided at all costs for anything not intended to be reused for years. Plastic is an immediate environmental problem and the bans are actionable. However, my opinion is that the bans are suboptimally directed. I frequently get served drinks in plastic non-compostable cups with bamboo straws now, and see supermarket vegetables on goddamn styrofoam trays wrapped in plastic wrap, and "harmless" coconut water sold in plastic drink bottles. I'm cool with plastic bag bans but they need to extend beyond plastic bags. Ban the cup, then the straw. Ban the foam trays and plastic wrap on vegetables, then the bag.
jarenmf 6y ago
Biggest carbon emitters are industrialized western democracies. Unless you are considering them as failed states, your argument is not correct
- IngvarLynn 6y ago
  First this is absolutely can not be true from purely logical reasoning. And You can check up yourself by hitting the very first search result. But most importantly You're completely missing the point which was not about carbon footprint or forests or plastic.
- jk7tarYZAQNpTQa 6y ago
  Carbon emission is only one of all our ecological concerns. I don't know why people only think about carbon. You can look for example at River plastic emissions to the world’s oceans [1]. [1] https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms15611 https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms15611

billytetrud 6y ago

Yes please. Better representation in democracies, and real democracies where fake ones currently exist.

therealdrag0 6y ago
Does representation fix environmental issues? I know lots of people who don’t give a second thought about the environment.

thaumaturgy 6y ago

This argument is never productive. I can use fewer plastic bags. I can plant trees (or pay to plant trees, whatever). I can't fix a failed state. Offer actionable and measurable alternatives.

IngvarLynn 6y ago
You can plant a tree but You can't plant a forest. You can't fix a failed state. But You can educate yourself (and others) on what the hell is happening with this world and vote for representative that cares.
- dillondoyle 6y ago
  One man did plant a forest! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jadav_Payeng https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jadav_Payeng https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2017/12/26/572421590/hed-take-his-own-life-before-killing-a-tree-meet-india-s-forest-man https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2017/12/26/572421590/... I agree with what you are saying but I think it can also extend to planting trees, use the power you do have and vote which can make big change beyond ourselves.
- jk7tarYZAQNpTQa 6y ago
  > You can plant a tree but You can't plant a forest. Of course you can plant a forest. But there's no need to. If each one of us plant 1 tree per month, we would be planting thousands of forests as a result of our team effort. We need an international Tree Planting Day. And we need to celebrate the fuck out of it.
  - azornathogron 6y ago
    Many people don't own suitable land on which they could do such a thing (certainly I don't), and if you're talking about going and planting a tree somewhere as part of a larger project run by some organization that has acquired the land for the purpose then... sure, ok, but it'll be far more efficient to pay a bunch of people to work full time planting many trees every day, rather than each one of us individually driving out to a planting site once a month to plant one tree (assuming there's even a site within a day's drive). I'm all for reforestation projects (and many other projects that could potentially have some kind of impact in reducing the rate atmospheric CO2 levels are rising), but the idea of everyone individually planting trees is not really practical. If you personally are in a situation that makes it feasible for you, then I hope you go for it and I wish you all the best.
  - quesera 6y ago
    > We need an international Tree Planting Day. Done! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbor_Day https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbor_Day
Trasmatta 6y ago
> I can't fix a failed state No, but you can get involved politically, and support policies and legislation that will make a difference.

dheera 6y ago

I'm not sure when "virtue signalling" became the new buzzword to attack people with. It seems these days that if you don't like someone you accuse them of virtue signalling, and if I understand the term correcty, accusing anyone of virtue signalling is itself a form of virtue signalling. Yes, I realize, this is an ironic paragraph, because I'm virtue signalling by accusing you of accusing someone else of virtue signalling. Now onto the actual topic -- While I agree with you that fixing failed states should be of utmost concern I don't think it's a bad thing to be banning plastic items now, one at a time, because we don't currently have a good way to truly recycle plastic, and the material should be avoided at all costs for anything not intended to be reused for years. Plastic is an immediate environmental problem and the bans are actionable. However, my opinion is that the bans are suboptimally directed. I frequently get served drinks in plastic non-compostable cups with bamboo straws now, and see supermarket vegetables on goddamn styrofoam trays wrapped in plastic wrap, and "harmless" coconut water sold in plastic drink bottles. I'm cool with plastic bag bans but they need to extend beyond plastic bags. Ban the cup, then the straw. Ban the foam trays and plastic wrap on vegetables, then the bag.

jarenmf 6y ago

Biggest carbon emitters are industrialized western democracies. Unless you are considering them as failed states, your argument is not correct

IngvarLynn 6y ago
First this is absolutely can not be true from purely logical reasoning. And You can check up yourself by hitting the very first search result. But most importantly You're completely missing the point which was not about carbon footprint or forests or plastic.
jk7tarYZAQNpTQa 6y ago
Carbon emission is only one of all our ecological concerns. I don't know why people only think about carbon. You can look for example at River plastic emissions to the world’s oceans [1]. [1] https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms15611 https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms15611