5 ms·

> like New Zealand, You mean an island nation with strict control over their ports and borders?

by war1025 6y ago

Spivak 6y ago
And had mandatory lockdowns
- throwaway894345 6y ago
  Mandatory lockdowns make a lot more sense when you’re an island nation that can plausibly eradicate the disease. You reasonably can expect a month of pain and then resume business as usual, but the America’s, Europe, and Asian enjoy no such hope.
  - Spivak 6y ago
    I know! Which is why it’s silly to use NZ as an example of anything.
- war1025 6y ago
  Mandatory lockdowns are like cancer surgery. They can be very effective if everything is still localized, but if the cancer has already metastasized, it really doesn't solve the problem.
  - Spivak 6y ago
    I’m not saying it would actually solve anything in the US, only that you can’t just say “look NZ resumed business as usual — the US should too!” because the situations are not at all similar.
throwaway894345 6y ago
Not sure why this is downvoted; it’s absolutely correct. European, Asian, and North/South American supply chains are internally integrated. A truck driver transports goods from the Czech Republic to France and unloads them at the destination. For New Zealand it’s not like the ship’s crew is unloading goods at the last mile. A similar effect is at play in Hawaii, but the latter can’t deny entry to US residents because unlike New Zealand it isn’t a sovereign nation.
- yorwba 6y ago
  > European, Asian, and North/South American supply chains are internally integrated. A truck driver transports goods from the Czech Republic to France and unloads them at the destination. But does that truck driver need to have direct contact with other people to do their job? Why can't they unload their cargo, sleep at a quarantine facility, and then drive a new truckload in the opposite direction, without an opportunity to infect anyone else? Also, island nations still have internal traffic. What's different about the borders between parts of Australia that allowed them to be closed when European borders had to stay open?
  - throwaway894345 6y ago
    > Island nations still have internal traffic Internal traffic among 4 million people is a much easier problem than traffic among a continent of 800 million people. > But does that truck driver need to have direct contact with other people to do their job? I’m sure there are better ways to do things, but truck drivers often unload shipments, confirm receipts, etc and they still need to visit truck stops and restaurants for supplies, food, etc. > Why can't they unload their cargo, sleep at a quarantine facility, and then drive a new truckload in the opposite direction, without an opportunity to infect anyone else? Quarantining between shipments would mean drivers are mostly idle, driving the cost of shipping through the roof. Changing supply contracts so drivers exchange cargo at the border requires completely reworking highly optimized logistics networks and isn’t going to happen in a few years, certainly not by fiat from some bureaucrat or politician that has no experience in logistics.
    - yorwba 6y ago
      > Internal traffic among 4 million people is a much easier problem than traffic among a continent of 800 million people. Can you fill in the details of how exactly it is easier? > Quarantining between shipments would mean drivers are mostly idle, driving the cost of shipping through the roof. Well, if they don't need to sleep between shipments, I guess they can drive back directly and get their supplies and food at home. I wasn't suggesting a full two-week quarantine if they don't intend to have any contact with locals anyway, just staying for the night isolated from anyone they could potentially infect.

> like New Zealand, You mean an island nation with strict control over their ports and borders?

Spivak 6y ago

And had mandatory lockdowns

throwaway894345 6y ago
Mandatory lockdowns make a lot more sense when you’re an island nation that can plausibly eradicate the disease. You reasonably can expect a month of pain and then resume business as usual, but the America’s, Europe, and Asian enjoy no such hope.
- Spivak 6y ago
  I know! Which is why it’s silly to use NZ as an example of anything.
war1025 6y ago
Mandatory lockdowns are like cancer surgery. They can be very effective if everything is still localized, but if the cancer has already metastasized, it really doesn't solve the problem.
- Spivak 6y ago
  I’m not saying it would actually solve anything in the US, only that you can’t just say “look NZ resumed business as usual — the US should too!” because the situations are not at all similar.

throwaway894345 6y ago

Not sure why this is downvoted; it’s absolutely correct. European, Asian, and North/South American supply chains are internally integrated. A truck driver transports goods from the Czech Republic to France and unloads them at the destination. For New Zealand it’s not like the ship’s crew is unloading goods at the last mile. A similar effect is at play in Hawaii, but the latter can’t deny entry to US residents because unlike New Zealand it isn’t a sovereign nation.

yorwba 6y ago
> European, Asian, and North/South American supply chains are internally integrated. A truck driver transports goods from the Czech Republic to France and unloads them at the destination. But does that truck driver need to have direct contact with other people to do their job? Why can't they unload their cargo, sleep at a quarantine facility, and then drive a new truckload in the opposite direction, without an opportunity to infect anyone else? Also, island nations still have internal traffic. What's different about the borders between parts of Australia that allowed them to be closed when European borders had to stay open?
- throwaway894345 6y ago
  > Island nations still have internal traffic Internal traffic among 4 million people is a much easier problem than traffic among a continent of 800 million people. > But does that truck driver need to have direct contact with other people to do their job? I’m sure there are better ways to do things, but truck drivers often unload shipments, confirm receipts, etc and they still need to visit truck stops and restaurants for supplies, food, etc. > Why can't they unload their cargo, sleep at a quarantine facility, and then drive a new truckload in the opposite direction, without an opportunity to infect anyone else? Quarantining between shipments would mean drivers are mostly idle, driving the cost of shipping through the roof. Changing supply contracts so drivers exchange cargo at the border requires completely reworking highly optimized logistics networks and isn’t going to happen in a few years, certainly not by fiat from some bureaucrat or politician that has no experience in logistics.
  - yorwba 6y ago
    > Internal traffic among 4 million people is a much easier problem than traffic among a continent of 800 million people. Can you fill in the details of how exactly it is easier? > Quarantining between shipments would mean drivers are mostly idle, driving the cost of shipping through the roof. Well, if they don't need to sleep between shipments, I guess they can drive back directly and get their supplies and food at home. I wasn't suggesting a full two-week quarantine if they don't intend to have any contact with locals anyway, just staying for the night isolated from anyone they could potentially infect.