6 ms·

What’s the purpose of comments like this? EDIT: I see someone mentioning Trump below and I can’t reply. Trump was never interested in managing covid-19 or effe

by jquery 6y ago

What’s the purpose of comments like this? EDIT: I see someone mentioning Trump below and I can’t reply. Trump was never interested in managing covid-19 or effective border control. This would’ve been the perfect opportunity for him to show why having smart borders was useful. He would’ve received support from within the government. He would’ve managed covid-19 successfully perhaps, and won re-election. The problem was Trump was a completely ineffective and incompetent leader, who didn’t care at all about the things he claimed to care about. Mandatory quarantines and tests for people traveling to America would’ve been a lot of work and Trump was allergic to that. He was a man who preferred the cheers at his rallies over the difficult work of administrating and governing.

war1025 6y ago
Probably that patience has worn thin for the extremely overly cautious people who have been hiding in their homes for a year when they are realistically at zero risk of severe illness. We have known since early summer of last year that being fat or being old are your two biggest risk factors. Beyond that, if you have some serious pre-existing condition that makes you susceptible to all illnesses. The messaging should have been "Stay home if you are a high risk group. Otherwise live your live." All current data shows areas that have taken that approach are significantly better off today than the places that hid in a hole the past year. We have let people treat this like it's an end of the world scenario and it's been good for no one.
- jquery 6y ago
  So you’d prefer we be like Brazil? Because the alternative for us was not Taiwan or Korea. They went far and beyond what Americans were willing to tolerate. Never mind the bad statistics behind your claim that covid is no worse than the flu. A athlete friend of mine in his 20s has permanent heart damage caused by the virus. Covid-19 is not a joke, no matter how much you wish it was. Americans could be out free, today, if we took this virus more seriously from the start. Now people like you want to make the disease endemic when the end is in sight.
  - scrollaway 6y ago
    There aren't only americans on this site. FWIW as a european (Belgium resident), your statement doesn't apply. Belgium did a shitty job since the second wave: We didn't go far enough and only applied a weak lockdown which has been in effect since October. So life here has been just bad enough to test everybody's patience for about six months. And now we're in a new uptick and everyone's losing their shit. Korea meanwhile applied strict, severe, surgical lockdowns and then were able to fully reopen after containment. People haven't been able to go see their families out of the country. I've not been able to practice my sport (figure skating) since October (they even banned it outdoors during winter!!). And there is a pages-long, ever-changing document on social bubbles, checklists on who you can see which take things such as age and household size into account, etc. It's dumb, people don't follow it, and it has deeply eroded trust in institutions, and it has pushed people into antivax groups because those are the most vocal ones against measures like these (so they are the sole ones sounding like the voice of reason). The "alternative" to the above is not brazil, and I would personally much rather be in Korea. And these measures, while on paper sound like they're slowing the spread, are also pushing people to be against government measures as a whole and feed into much more dangerous sentiments. Would you apply a measure that reduces the spread by 0.1% if it also meant a 0.1% decrease in mask usage? Or a 0.25% decrease in vaccine uptake? What if you can't know any of those numbers, you just know they exist? ---- Edit: Just to really drive home my point: I've been advocating for this for months. Just as I posted this comment, the following article shows up on the Brussels Times: "Belgium needs a short ‘real’ lockdown, warns expert" https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/belgium-all-news/161157/belgium-needs-a-short-real-lockdown-warns-expert-dirk-devroey-vub-erika-vlieghe-geert-meyfroidt-gems-consultative-committee/ https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/belgium-all-news/161157/b...
    - hef19898 6y ago
      All EU countries screwed up, not just Belgium. Case in point, German states agreed on an "emergency brake" once cases increase over 100 per 100k, 7 day average. Now we are there, 3 days in a row. So, one would assume they would close schools again. No, because it has to be 3 days in a row, weekends don't count so. After that, two days to implement measures. Which means schools will be open next week despite a heavy case load. Only to fulfill the political goal of opening schools before Easter. Nevermind we will close down everything after Easter through April. There is no strategy, no planning, no logic involved.
- rconti 6y ago
  I'm a healthy male who's been "hiding in [my] home for a year". I mean, other than shopping trips, and running, and cycling, and skiing, and.. However, I've done no social events, seen no friends, etc. But, sorry if you think trying to avoid illness, trying to avoid passing on illness to others who don't have the comfort of working from home, passing on the illness to elderly family members, etc, is a waste of time. It's a pretty minor inconvenience for me to be largely isolated for a year, compared to those who are less fortunate than me. How about a big 'ol [citation needed] on > All current data shows areas that have taken that approach are significantly better off today than the places that hid in a hole the past year. You know, a citation that doesn't involve correlation with countries that happened to have extreme lockdowns initially, acceptance of mass testing and screening and social restriction when necessary, etc. By the way, my wife works in rehab in a hospital, and sees your "low risk" young people whose lives have been, as far as we can tell, permanently altered by the virus that some of us are seeking to avoid.
  - raducu 6y ago
    This whole situation is just so sad. My uncle is in the hospital in pretty bad shape, on oxygen so far. He was spewing conspiracy shit non-stop on facebook. My father urged him to take the vaccine, then to come to the hospital sooner, he did a CT scan on my uncle, told him, showed him how messed up his lungs were, my uncle refused to be administered in the hospital, made a big fuss that the doctors wanted to kill him in the ICU; two days later he was brought in in an ambulancr. If he was a stranger, maybe I would have laughed "serves you right", I just cannot understand how an above average intelligence person got himself brainwashed with anti-covid conspiracy theories.
  - cassalian 6y ago
    It's nice that you have been able to deal well with the situation this last year, but try to remember that your experience is not necessarily representative of the whole: > The districts, large and small, rural and urban, serve more than 2.2 million students across the United States. Of the 74 districts that responded, 74% reported multiple indicators of increased mental health stresses among students. More than half reported rises in mental health referrals and counseling. Nearly 90% of responding districts cited higher rates of absenteeism or disengagement, metrics commonly used to gauge student emotional health https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/health-coronavirus-students/ https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/health-c... (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26532588 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26532588)
- mynameisvlad 6y ago
  > All current data shows areas that have taken that approach are significantly better off today than the places that hid in a hole the past year. Source? I'd argue current data shows that those that showed an overabundance of caution, like New Zealand, are the ones significantly better off than everyone else.
  - war1025 6y ago
    > like New Zealand, You mean an island nation with strict control over their ports and borders?
    - Spivak 6y ago
      And had mandatory lockdowns
      - throwaway894345 6y ago
        Mandatory lockdowns make a lot more sense when you’re an island nation that can plausibly eradicate the disease. You reasonably can expect a month of pain and then resume business as usual, but the America’s, Europe, and Asian enjoy no such hope.
        Spivak 6y ago
        I know! Which is why it’s silly to use NZ as an example of anything.
      - war1025 6y ago
        Mandatory lockdowns are like cancer surgery. They can be very effective if everything is still localized, but if the cancer has already metastasized, it really doesn't solve the problem.
        Spivak 6y ago
        I’m not saying it would actually solve anything in the US, only that you can’t just say “look NZ resumed business as usual — the US should too!” because the situations are not at all similar.
- heterodoxxed 6y ago
  | they are realistically at zero risk of severe illness. I didn't do it for me.
  - war1025 6y ago
    Every single person who "didn't do it for me" relied on an enormous network of people putting themselves at risk daily to keep the supply chains functioning. It's virtuization of fear and little else.
    - jstanley 6y ago
      I'm confused. Is it a risk or is it not a risk?
    - heterodoxxed 6y ago
      | at risk daily to keep the supply chains functioning That sounds like crocodile tears to me. I don't see how going to bars and flying commercial would have made the people working in grocery delivery and amazon safer. And it would absolutely have put the people in my life who are at the highest risk at an even greater risk if I had done so.
anoncake 6y ago
That, or "Covid behaves like viruses usually do", describes plenty of headlines of the past 15 months. Remember how everyone was worried that antibody levels drop after an infection? Judging by the media coverage, you'd think memory cells and T cells were a recent, Covid-related discovery. We've known about them since the sixties and they continue to work as advertised.

by jquery 6y ago

war1025 6y ago

Probably that patience has worn thin for the extremely overly cautious people who have been hiding in their homes for a year when they are realistically at zero risk of severe illness. We have known since early summer of last year that being fat or being old are your two biggest risk factors. Beyond that, if you have some serious pre-existing condition that makes you susceptible to all illnesses. The messaging should have been "Stay home if you are a high risk group. Otherwise live your live." All current data shows areas that have taken that approach are significantly better off today than the places that hid in a hole the past year. We have let people treat this like it's an end of the world scenario and it's been good for no one.

jquery 6y ago
So you’d prefer we be like Brazil? Because the alternative for us was not Taiwan or Korea. They went far and beyond what Americans were willing to tolerate. Never mind the bad statistics behind your claim that covid is no worse than the flu. A athlete friend of mine in his 20s has permanent heart damage caused by the virus. Covid-19 is not a joke, no matter how much you wish it was. Americans could be out free, today, if we took this virus more seriously from the start. Now people like you want to make the disease endemic when the end is in sight.
- scrollaway 6y ago
  There aren't only americans on this site. FWIW as a european (Belgium resident), your statement doesn't apply. Belgium did a shitty job since the second wave: We didn't go far enough and only applied a weak lockdown which has been in effect since October. So life here has been just bad enough to test everybody's patience for about six months. And now we're in a new uptick and everyone's losing their shit. Korea meanwhile applied strict, severe, surgical lockdowns and then were able to fully reopen after containment. People haven't been able to go see their families out of the country. I've not been able to practice my sport (figure skating) since October (they even banned it outdoors during winter!!). And there is a pages-long, ever-changing document on social bubbles, checklists on who you can see which take things such as age and household size into account, etc. It's dumb, people don't follow it, and it has deeply eroded trust in institutions, and it has pushed people into antivax groups because those are the most vocal ones against measures like these (so they are the sole ones sounding like the voice of reason). The "alternative" to the above is not brazil, and I would personally much rather be in Korea. And these measures, while on paper sound like they're slowing the spread, are also pushing people to be against government measures as a whole and feed into much more dangerous sentiments. Would you apply a measure that reduces the spread by 0.1% if it also meant a 0.1% decrease in mask usage? Or a 0.25% decrease in vaccine uptake? What if you can't know any of those numbers, you just know they exist? ---- Edit: Just to really drive home my point: I've been advocating for this for months. Just as I posted this comment, the following article shows up on the Brussels Times: "Belgium needs a short ‘real’ lockdown, warns expert" https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/belgium-all-news/161157/belgium-needs-a-short-real-lockdown-warns-expert-dirk-devroey-vub-erika-vlieghe-geert-meyfroidt-gems-consultative-committee/ https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/belgium-all-news/161157/b...
  - hef19898 6y ago
    All EU countries screwed up, not just Belgium. Case in point, German states agreed on an "emergency brake" once cases increase over 100 per 100k, 7 day average. Now we are there, 3 days in a row. So, one would assume they would close schools again. No, because it has to be 3 days in a row, weekends don't count so. After that, two days to implement measures. Which means schools will be open next week despite a heavy case load. Only to fulfill the political goal of opening schools before Easter. Nevermind we will close down everything after Easter through April. There is no strategy, no planning, no logic involved.
rconti 6y ago
I'm a healthy male who's been "hiding in [my] home for a year". I mean, other than shopping trips, and running, and cycling, and skiing, and.. However, I've done no social events, seen no friends, etc. But, sorry if you think trying to avoid illness, trying to avoid passing on illness to others who don't have the comfort of working from home, passing on the illness to elderly family members, etc, is a waste of time. It's a pretty minor inconvenience for me to be largely isolated for a year, compared to those who are less fortunate than me. How about a big 'ol [citation needed] on > All current data shows areas that have taken that approach are significantly better off today than the places that hid in a hole the past year. You know, a citation that doesn't involve correlation with countries that happened to have extreme lockdowns initially, acceptance of mass testing and screening and social restriction when necessary, etc. By the way, my wife works in rehab in a hospital, and sees your "low risk" young people whose lives have been, as far as we can tell, permanently altered by the virus that some of us are seeking to avoid.
- raducu 6y ago
  This whole situation is just so sad. My uncle is in the hospital in pretty bad shape, on oxygen so far. He was spewing conspiracy shit non-stop on facebook. My father urged him to take the vaccine, then to come to the hospital sooner, he did a CT scan on my uncle, told him, showed him how messed up his lungs were, my uncle refused to be administered in the hospital, made a big fuss that the doctors wanted to kill him in the ICU; two days later he was brought in in an ambulancr. If he was a stranger, maybe I would have laughed "serves you right", I just cannot understand how an above average intelligence person got himself brainwashed with anti-covid conspiracy theories.
- cassalian 6y ago
  It's nice that you have been able to deal well with the situation this last year, but try to remember that your experience is not necessarily representative of the whole: > The districts, large and small, rural and urban, serve more than 2.2 million students across the United States. Of the 74 districts that responded, 74% reported multiple indicators of increased mental health stresses among students. More than half reported rises in mental health referrals and counseling. Nearly 90% of responding districts cited higher rates of absenteeism or disengagement, metrics commonly used to gauge student emotional health https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/health-coronavirus-students/ https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/health-c... (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26532588 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26532588)
mynameisvlad 6y ago
> All current data shows areas that have taken that approach are significantly better off today than the places that hid in a hole the past year. Source? I'd argue current data shows that those that showed an overabundance of caution, like New Zealand, are the ones significantly better off than everyone else.
- war1025 6y ago
  > like New Zealand, You mean an island nation with strict control over their ports and borders?
  - Spivak 6y ago
    And had mandatory lockdowns
    - throwaway894345 6y ago
      Mandatory lockdowns make a lot more sense when you’re an island nation that can plausibly eradicate the disease. You reasonably can expect a month of pain and then resume business as usual, but the America’s, Europe, and Asian enjoy no such hope.
      - Spivak 6y ago
        I know! Which is why it’s silly to use NZ as an example of anything.
    - war1025 6y ago
      Mandatory lockdowns are like cancer surgery. They can be very effective if everything is still localized, but if the cancer has already metastasized, it really doesn't solve the problem.
      - Spivak 6y ago
        I’m not saying it would actually solve anything in the US, only that you can’t just say “look NZ resumed business as usual — the US should too!” because the situations are not at all similar.
heterodoxxed 6y ago
| they are realistically at zero risk of severe illness. I didn't do it for me.
- war1025 6y ago
  Every single person who "didn't do it for me" relied on an enormous network of people putting themselves at risk daily to keep the supply chains functioning. It's virtuization of fear and little else.
  - jstanley 6y ago
    I'm confused. Is it a risk or is it not a risk?
  - heterodoxxed 6y ago
    | at risk daily to keep the supply chains functioning That sounds like crocodile tears to me. I don't see how going to bars and flying commercial would have made the people working in grocery delivery and amazon safer. And it would absolutely have put the people in my life who are at the highest risk at an even greater risk if I had done so.

anoncake 6y ago

That, or "Covid behaves like viruses usually do", describes plenty of headlines of the past 15 months. Remember how everyone was worried that antibody levels drop after an infection? Judging by the media coverage, you'd think memory cells and T cells were a recent, Covid-related discovery. We've known about them since the sixties and they continue to work as advertised.