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> Do we have any hard data here? Or is this just an anecdote? 55% according to the Emacs survey 2020 (obviously, take it with a pinch of self-selection bias du

> Do we have any hard data here? Or is this just an anecdote? 55% according to the Emacs survey 2020 (obviously, take it with a pinch of self-selection bias due to the survey being self selecting). [1] https://emacssurvey.org/2020/ https://emacssurvey.org/2020/

jolux 6y ago
And yet that same survey says 91% use it for software development, too.
- BeetleB 6y ago
  Yet there is no hard data for my claim: > The fraction of Emacs users who use it primarily for things other than programming is a lot bigger than most HN readers think it is. I didn't claim most users don't use it for SW development. I didn't even claim most users don't use it primarily for SW development. I said the number of people who primarily use it for other stuff is larger than most people think. If HN thinks the number is 5%, and in reality it is 20%: The survey does not have data either way. And as I noted in another post: The survey is flawed in that it didn't contain a representative sample. In particular, people on the Emacs mailing list were quite opposed to filling out the survey, and one of their concerns was what is happening right here: People drawing conclusions from a very poorly executed survey.
  - jolux 6y ago
    I'm not drawing any conclusions about the community, you're the person who started making claims about the demographics of users. > In particular, people on the Emacs mailing list were quite opposed to filling out the survey, and one of their concerns was what is happening right here: People drawing conclusions from a very poorly executed survey. But the outcome here is that their point of view was not represented, flawed though the survey may be.
oblio 6y ago
You're completely misreading that graph, I think. And that graph actually proves his point. 91.4% of Emacs users use it for coding (so the overwhelming majority, as you'd expect), and then some of them use it for something else. Those groups are not separate, if you look at the percentages, they add up to a lot more than 100%. So people could check multiple options. All this tells us is that: A) Emacs is primarily used by devs (hardly surprising :-) ) B) The devs that use it also use it for other side tasks (also hardly surprising, considering Emacs' kitchen sink philosophy).
- ywei3410 6y ago
  The grandfather'ed post was: > The fraction of Emacs users who use it primarily for things other than programming is a lot bigger than most HN readers think it is. Whether it was used by developers or not, didn't have any bearing on the question/data. I don't know whether I would draw the conclusion they primarily use it for coding or "other tasks" from the graph; for example a developer using Emacs for `org-mode` only with the occasional git usage would check both boxes. Just as you've reached the conclusion that 90% means all of them use it primarily for coding, an equally valid conclusion is that 50% use it primarily for /not/ coding. I don't make that leap - but it seems strange to discount one possibility heavily it favour of another; could you elaborate why?

jolux 6y ago

And yet that same survey says 91% use it for software development, too.

BeetleB 6y ago
Yet there is no hard data for my claim: > The fraction of Emacs users who use it primarily for things other than programming is a lot bigger than most HN readers think it is. I didn't claim most users don't use it for SW development. I didn't even claim most users don't use it primarily for SW development. I said the number of people who primarily use it for other stuff is larger than most people think. If HN thinks the number is 5%, and in reality it is 20%: The survey does not have data either way. And as I noted in another post: The survey is flawed in that it didn't contain a representative sample. In particular, people on the Emacs mailing list were quite opposed to filling out the survey, and one of their concerns was what is happening right here: People drawing conclusions from a very poorly executed survey.
- jolux 6y ago
  I'm not drawing any conclusions about the community, you're the person who started making claims about the demographics of users. > In particular, people on the Emacs mailing list were quite opposed to filling out the survey, and one of their concerns was what is happening right here: People drawing conclusions from a very poorly executed survey. But the outcome here is that their point of view was not represented, flawed though the survey may be.

oblio 6y ago

You're completely misreading that graph, I think. And that graph actually proves his point. 91.4% of Emacs users use it for coding (so the overwhelming majority, as you'd expect), and then some of them use it for something else. Those groups are not separate, if you look at the percentages, they add up to a lot more than 100%. So people could check multiple options. All this tells us is that: A) Emacs is primarily used by devs (hardly surprising :-) ) B) The devs that use it also use it for other side tasks (also hardly surprising, considering Emacs' kitchen sink philosophy).

ywei3410 6y ago
The grandfather'ed post was: > The fraction of Emacs users who use it primarily for things other than programming is a lot bigger than most HN readers think it is. Whether it was used by developers or not, didn't have any bearing on the question/data. I don't know whether I would draw the conclusion they primarily use it for coding or "other tasks" from the graph; for example a developer using Emacs for `org-mode` only with the occasional git usage would check both boxes. Just as you've reached the conclusion that 90% means all of them use it primarily for coding, an equally valid conclusion is that 50% use it primarily for /not/ coding. I don't make that leap - but it seems strange to discount one possibility heavily it favour of another; could you elaborate why?