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> the best the world could do is China which just stole US ideas and then built a firewall to keep others out. So where was WeChat and ubiquitous QR codes for

> the best the world could do is China which just stole US ideas and then built a firewall to keep others out. So where was WeChat and ubiquitous QR codes for everything stolen from? Silicon Valley still haven't figured out how to do Ubiquitous contactless payment... it's like going back in time every time I travel there, and I have to swipe a credit card and sign with a pen. Or Taiwan's COVID/PPE Supply tracking system's? Sorry... Silicon Valley is dying.

ubertoop 6y ago
You've listed literally 4 things. You can't really believe that compares to the innovations to come out of Silicon Valley, right?
- onethought 6y ago
  Sorry, your right: - largest electric vehicle manufacturer and adoption - 5G (still no SV grown solution there) - Most advanced solar manufacture - biggest investor in renewable energy and nuclear - biggest investor in space based technology and delivery If you’d like more I can keep going. I was responding to: “they steal everything”... I pointed out the most widely used social network that was homegrown and unique.
  - astrange 6y ago
    > - 5G (still no SV grown solution there) Is this a real thing that anyone cares about? There was a lot of marketing from Samsung and Supermicro for a few months about how everyone needed "5G AI cloud infrastructure", but it seemed like an especially bad strain of bullshit. I certainly haven't figured out what it was supposed to mean yet. Selling infrastructure to ISPs is not an amazingly high margin business.
    - onethought 6y ago
      Yeah, 5G is a real thing. It’s really fast and awesome! It involves both improvements in hardware and software. Huawei are the leaders in it. (Devastating to the narrative that China just copies everyone)
      - inshadows 6y ago
        Define awesome. How will it improve my life? Please don't mention high speed. Or if you do, mention applications where it makes difference.
        throwaway-8c93 6y ago
        I do share your skepticism overall, 5G is being pushed more aggressively than its value would warrant. But there are parts of 5G suite that are indeed valuable and go beyond the mere "moar speed" mantra. Network slicing is not consumer facing, but is a big deal in business-to-business connectivity, likely enabling business models that just aren't possible today. It's a bit like renting virtual machines in the cloud, but instead you're renting connectivity, tailored to your SLA needs. Higher bandwidth, lower latency and lower power consumption are not exciting in isolation, but improving all of them at the same time does bring notably better user experience (see the raving reviews of M1 Mac for the same phenomenon).
      - astrange 6y ago
        5G FR2 is certainly fast but we already had "fast" (5Ghz Wi-Fi or wired Internet), and it's pretty harsh on mobile batteries. 5G FR1 is somewhat better than LTE but not really enough to enable new uses. The real issue preventing new consumer uses is that wireless plans are expensive and have data limits. Driving that down presumably involves investing in the wireless ISP backend, which doesn't have much to do with the radio technology.
  - ubertoop 6y ago
    This list includes no genuinely new innovations except for maybe 5G. You are listing that China is a major manufacturer, which is true. The OPs point was that China has a record of stealing IP from the US, which is also true. Listing manufacturers in China doesn't disprove this point. So please, if you'd like, a list of genuine technologies who's origins can be traced to China... I'll be waiting.
    - onethought 6y ago
      So WeChat, and 5G. Should be discounted because they don’t support your point, and you will wait for others? Got it! - Facial recognition on banking transactions. - Tele Health rolled out via their ubiquitous home grown social network - AI drones policing temperature and mask wearing - real-time automatic translation hardware and software. - Chinese based text input via keyboards - Chinese voice recognition (a different problem to tonal languages) By all means point out where they stole those things from Then when you can’t do that, check out their space program, their capability easily surpasses NASA and is competitive with space X. Which given they are banned from even the iss where did they steal that from?
      - ubertoop 6y ago
        Most of the things you've listed here use WESTERN TECH just re-applied for a Chinese market, and you're calling that innovation? The fact that you had to list "Chinese based text input via keyboards" as a genuine Chinese innovation is telling. Done with this discussion. You can't seem to come up with even 2 genuine Chinese innovations and instead refer to the reapplication of tech developed in the western world. Nobody is saying China can't take what others have done and improve on it. That is happening more and more. It used to be China just straight up copied and stole intellectual property. I'll admit that line is beginning to blur. But genuine novel innovation is still very lacking.
        onethought 6y ago
        I started with 5G. I know it's devastating to your case so you'll ignore it, but that is where I started. The great firewall? Social credit system? Automated J-walking tickets based on facial recognition? Tell me where those were copied from in the west. Everyone just straight up and copies and steals intellectual property (Xerox, Apple, Windows)... But when china does, it's some how "china just steals everything". Also there is piles of innovation in the "boring stuff" like "how to actually make a battery" or "smart phone manufacture" that is almost exclusively in Asia (and predominantly china). Or in BYDs case (the company that was making mass produced electric cars long before Tesla "innovated"), making batteries that are environmentally friendly when disposed of. But hey, you're done with this discussion. So enjoy the blissful ignorance.
ping_pong 6y ago
QR codes are Japanese not Chinese. Contactless payment systems are everywhere now, the big push being COVID. Taiwan isn't China, any Taiwanese will tell you that. Taiwan did a lot of things right when it came to the COVID response, but it's easy to do when you have a population of 23 million on a tiny island. I have several friends who are living in Taiwan and I've been jealous of them throughout the pandemic because their government handled it correctly. However, the US vaccination response is the best in the world. Even I have been vaccinated. Silicon Valley isn't dying. It's literally the biggest creator of wealth in the world, and it's so much that it's causing a horrible amount of income inequality, especially in the Bay Area itself. It's almost being a victim of its own success, as I already mentioned.
- onethought 6y ago
  I never said Taiwan was part of China... in fact I mentioned them both separately by name... which would be weird if I was saying they were the same right? #strawman >biggest creator of wealth in the world Amazon you mean? Or do you mean Tesla? Or Microsoft?... oh wait... none of them are from SV.
  - ping_pong 6y ago
    Yes, it was weird that you mentioned Taiwan when I mentioned China. Tesla is in the heart of Silicon Valley. Facebook, Google, Apple, Netflix, Uber, Twitter, the list goes on and on. China takes US ideas and copies them, and then releases them in China where they don't have to compete against the US originals. It's a simple fact.
    - onethought 6y ago
      So what is Tencent a copy of? And which application does wechat copy? Or Weibo? What is Huawei a copy of? Your simple fact, sounds awfully like racism.
      - ping_pong 6y ago
        Tencent started as a rip-off of ICQ. Their application name was literally called OICQ. Then they became a rip off of Zynga. Tencent succeeds because it's safely protected by China, but it would never have gained enough marketshare without that monopoly. That's my entire point. Huawei is a ripoff of Cisco. It's another company protected by the Chinese government. And you forget Didi, which is a simple rip off of Uber. Uber was competing against Didi and would have won, except the Chinese government backed Didi and Uber decided it couldn't survive its source of money so they gave up. Didi even engaged in corporate spying, by sending their workers into Uber China to work there, sabotage it, and steal internal data. Didi couldn't win without cheating. The fact you pull the race card is very sad. It means you're losing the argument.
deleted 6y ago
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deleted 6y ago
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e_y_ 6y ago
Crappy payments isn't a tech problem, it's a market problem. Consumers and merchants can't be bothered to adopt contactless technologies that were introduced half a decade ago. Companies have tried QR codes and other payment schemes long before that (including the unfortunately named ISIS), but again, no traction.
- onethought 6y ago
  Americans don’t like contactless payment? Or (more Likely), unlike their Chinese counterparts, American banks are way more conservative with adopting new technologies. Hence why y’all still get paid with paper cheques :)
  - astrange 6y ago
    We have contactless payment with EMVpay/Apple Pay. There are some QR code systems like Venmo but I don't know what the value add of scanning a code is supposed to be. Nobody gets paid with paper checks unless they want to, although if you're poor and have been blacklisted by the bank system you might take it so you can use a check cashing service.
    - ghaff 6y ago
      People have their habits. I do increasingly use my Apple Watch (or a contactless credit card) to pay but my observation on the outskirts of a large East Coast metro is that effectively no one does. I still use checks for service people and some other purposes, e.g. when there's a fee for online payment.

ubertoop 6y ago

You've listed literally 4 things. You can't really believe that compares to the innovations to come out of Silicon Valley, right?

onethought 6y ago
Sorry, your right: - largest electric vehicle manufacturer and adoption - 5G (still no SV grown solution there) - Most advanced solar manufacture - biggest investor in renewable energy and nuclear - biggest investor in space based technology and delivery If you’d like more I can keep going. I was responding to: “they steal everything”... I pointed out the most widely used social network that was homegrown and unique.
- astrange 6y ago
  > - 5G (still no SV grown solution there) Is this a real thing that anyone cares about? There was a lot of marketing from Samsung and Supermicro for a few months about how everyone needed "5G AI cloud infrastructure", but it seemed like an especially bad strain of bullshit. I certainly haven't figured out what it was supposed to mean yet. Selling infrastructure to ISPs is not an amazingly high margin business.
  - onethought 6y ago
    Yeah, 5G is a real thing. It’s really fast and awesome! It involves both improvements in hardware and software. Huawei are the leaders in it. (Devastating to the narrative that China just copies everyone)
    - inshadows 6y ago
      Define awesome. How will it improve my life? Please don't mention high speed. Or if you do, mention applications where it makes difference.
      - throwaway-8c93 6y ago
        I do share your skepticism overall, 5G is being pushed more aggressively than its value would warrant. But there are parts of 5G suite that are indeed valuable and go beyond the mere "moar speed" mantra. Network slicing is not consumer facing, but is a big deal in business-to-business connectivity, likely enabling business models that just aren't possible today. It's a bit like renting virtual machines in the cloud, but instead you're renting connectivity, tailored to your SLA needs. Higher bandwidth, lower latency and lower power consumption are not exciting in isolation, but improving all of them at the same time does bring notably better user experience (see the raving reviews of M1 Mac for the same phenomenon).
    - astrange 6y ago
      5G FR2 is certainly fast but we already had "fast" (5Ghz Wi-Fi or wired Internet), and it's pretty harsh on mobile batteries. 5G FR1 is somewhat better than LTE but not really enough to enable new uses. The real issue preventing new consumer uses is that wireless plans are expensive and have data limits. Driving that down presumably involves investing in the wireless ISP backend, which doesn't have much to do with the radio technology.
- ubertoop 6y ago
  This list includes no genuinely new innovations except for maybe 5G. You are listing that China is a major manufacturer, which is true. The OPs point was that China has a record of stealing IP from the US, which is also true. Listing manufacturers in China doesn't disprove this point. So please, if you'd like, a list of genuine technologies who's origins can be traced to China... I'll be waiting.
  - onethought 6y ago
    So WeChat, and 5G. Should be discounted because they don’t support your point, and you will wait for others? Got it! - Facial recognition on banking transactions. - Tele Health rolled out via their ubiquitous home grown social network - AI drones policing temperature and mask wearing - real-time automatic translation hardware and software. - Chinese based text input via keyboards - Chinese voice recognition (a different problem to tonal languages) By all means point out where they stole those things from Then when you can’t do that, check out their space program, their capability easily surpasses NASA and is competitive with space X. Which given they are banned from even the iss where did they steal that from?
    - ubertoop 6y ago
      Most of the things you've listed here use WESTERN TECH just re-applied for a Chinese market, and you're calling that innovation? The fact that you had to list "Chinese based text input via keyboards" as a genuine Chinese innovation is telling. Done with this discussion. You can't seem to come up with even 2 genuine Chinese innovations and instead refer to the reapplication of tech developed in the western world. Nobody is saying China can't take what others have done and improve on it. That is happening more and more. It used to be China just straight up copied and stole intellectual property. I'll admit that line is beginning to blur. But genuine novel innovation is still very lacking.
      - onethought 6y ago
        I started with 5G. I know it's devastating to your case so you'll ignore it, but that is where I started. The great firewall? Social credit system? Automated J-walking tickets based on facial recognition? Tell me where those were copied from in the west. Everyone just straight up and copies and steals intellectual property (Xerox, Apple, Windows)... But when china does, it's some how "china just steals everything". Also there is piles of innovation in the "boring stuff" like "how to actually make a battery" or "smart phone manufacture" that is almost exclusively in Asia (and predominantly china). Or in BYDs case (the company that was making mass produced electric cars long before Tesla "innovated"), making batteries that are environmentally friendly when disposed of. But hey, you're done with this discussion. So enjoy the blissful ignorance.

ping_pong 6y ago

QR codes are Japanese not Chinese. Contactless payment systems are everywhere now, the big push being COVID. Taiwan isn't China, any Taiwanese will tell you that. Taiwan did a lot of things right when it came to the COVID response, but it's easy to do when you have a population of 23 million on a tiny island. I have several friends who are living in Taiwan and I've been jealous of them throughout the pandemic because their government handled it correctly. However, the US vaccination response is the best in the world. Even I have been vaccinated. Silicon Valley isn't dying. It's literally the biggest creator of wealth in the world, and it's so much that it's causing a horrible amount of income inequality, especially in the Bay Area itself. It's almost being a victim of its own success, as I already mentioned.

onethought 6y ago
I never said Taiwan was part of China... in fact I mentioned them both separately by name... which would be weird if I was saying they were the same right? #strawman >biggest creator of wealth in the world Amazon you mean? Or do you mean Tesla? Or Microsoft?... oh wait... none of them are from SV.
- ping_pong 6y ago
  Yes, it was weird that you mentioned Taiwan when I mentioned China. Tesla is in the heart of Silicon Valley. Facebook, Google, Apple, Netflix, Uber, Twitter, the list goes on and on. China takes US ideas and copies them, and then releases them in China where they don't have to compete against the US originals. It's a simple fact.
  - onethought 6y ago
    So what is Tencent a copy of? And which application does wechat copy? Or Weibo? What is Huawei a copy of? Your simple fact, sounds awfully like racism.
    - ping_pong 6y ago
      Tencent started as a rip-off of ICQ. Their application name was literally called OICQ. Then they became a rip off of Zynga. Tencent succeeds because it's safely protected by China, but it would never have gained enough marketshare without that monopoly. That's my entire point. Huawei is a ripoff of Cisco. It's another company protected by the Chinese government. And you forget Didi, which is a simple rip off of Uber. Uber was competing against Didi and would have won, except the Chinese government backed Didi and Uber decided it couldn't survive its source of money so they gave up. Didi even engaged in corporate spying, by sending their workers into Uber China to work there, sabotage it, and steal internal data. Didi couldn't win without cheating. The fact you pull the race card is very sad. It means you're losing the argument.

deleted 6y ago

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deleted 6y ago

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e_y_ 6y ago

Crappy payments isn't a tech problem, it's a market problem. Consumers and merchants can't be bothered to adopt contactless technologies that were introduced half a decade ago. Companies have tried QR codes and other payment schemes long before that (including the unfortunately named ISIS), but again, no traction.

onethought 6y ago
Americans don’t like contactless payment? Or (more Likely), unlike their Chinese counterparts, American banks are way more conservative with adopting new technologies. Hence why y’all still get paid with paper cheques :)
- astrange 6y ago
  We have contactless payment with EMVpay/Apple Pay. There are some QR code systems like Venmo but I don't know what the value add of scanning a code is supposed to be. Nobody gets paid with paper checks unless they want to, although if you're poor and have been blacklisted by the bank system you might take it so you can use a check cashing service.
  - ghaff 6y ago
    People have their habits. I do increasingly use my Apple Watch (or a contactless credit card) to pay but my observation on the outskirts of a large East Coast metro is that effectively no one does. I still use checks for service people and some other purposes, e.g. when there's a fee for online payment.