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VSCode will likely get you to 80% productivity compared to Emacs pretty fast. The question how easy is to get from 80% to 100%. It is like a prototype vs. polis

by d0mine 6y ago

VSCode will likely get you to 80% productivity compared to Emacs pretty fast. The question how easy is to get from 80% to 100%. It is like a prototype vs. polished code: you can create something that provides 80% of the result over a weekend and then spend 2 years polishing it, to get remaining desired functionality. For example, I'm sure VSCode does git but does it as well as Magit? Everyday things can be done on muscle memory, most other things are much more discoverable than I've seen in any git interface (using other git interfaces is like walking in a office with your eyes closed vs open with magit). http://emacsrocks.com/e17.html http://emacsrocks.com/e17.html I'm sure VSCode does notes too but does it as well as Org mode? Org mode for me is an extension of my brain: it is a working memory that supports executing whatever task I do, it helps organize/automate tasks, it helps focus, etc. For people with ADHD like symptoms, I expect a life changing experience thanks to Org mode -- while other people should just become more productive in it. Every keystroke is a programmable command in Emacs. VSCode is close. I expect parity for programming modes. Most Emacs interactions are likely less pointy-n-clicky compared to VSCode: somehow pressing keychords steals my focus less than doing actions with a mouse for everyday things freeing the conscious brain to work on the task at hand. Emacs provides a unified interface for me e.g., searching/filtering lists https://writequit.org/denver-emacs/presentations/2017-04-11-ivy.html https://writequit.org/denver-emacs/presentations/2017-04-11-... Emacs doesn't do web browsing very well. I have to survive with Vimium. Does VSCode perform better here? VSCode is much more popular today. Emacs is GPL -- I expect it to be there in 20 years too. I won't trust Microsoft long term.

jolux 6y ago
>VSCode is much more popular today. Emacs is GPL -- I expect it to be there in 20 years too. I won't trust Microsoft long term. VSCode is open source, too. There are forks with the Microsoft IP removed from it. I believe Eclipse and RedHat maintain one now as well. Other than that I basically agree with you. I much prefer Emacs to VSCode, but there are annoying things about it that mean I don't want to use it full time.
- mplanchard 6y ago
  Many of the popular extensions developed by Microsoft (pylance for example), which are installed by default when you’re working on a given language, are proprietary.
neolog 6y ago
VSCode has a Magit port and at least two roam/org clones.
sedachv 6y ago
> Every keystroke is a programmable command in Emacs. VSCode is close. VSCode does not even have keyboard macros. Either "every keystroke is a programmable command" is not exactly what is going on in VSCode, or the VSCode users do not exactly understand what this "Open Source" thing is, because so far there has been 5 years of whining and 0 patches: https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode/issues/4490 https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode/issues/4490
- slightwinder 6y ago
  > VSCode does not even have keyboard macros. https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/search?term=macros&target=VSCode&category=All%20categories&sortBy=Relevance https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/search?term=macros&targ... > Either "every keystroke is a programmable command" is not exactly what is going on in VSCode There are commands (JavaScript-Functions) which one can be bind to keys. But who knows whether all keys have a command behind them? An with a GUI, I wondern whether all interactions are bindable commands. Mouse-Interaction, especially in context of some widget might be more complex to handle than just recording an input-flow. > because so far there has been 5 years of whining and 0 patches: https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode/issues/4490 https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode/issues/4490 Which only means it has no priority. But considering there are 4.7k open issues and 103k closed, taking a single issue is just a hint that the community is likely not pushing hard enough for this specific issue.
  - sedachv 6y ago
    Since you were too lazy to check, I did the work, and I can say there is nothing that provides keyboard macros in the search link you posted. Here is the documentation that explains keyboard macros: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Keyboard-Macros.html https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Ke... > But who knows whether all keys have a command behind them? Yes, they literally do in Emacs. That is the whole point of this discussion. > An with a GUI, I wondern [sic] whether all interactions are bindable commands. Mouse-Interaction, especially in context of some widget might be more complex to handle than just recording an input-flow. Mouse events result in commands. You can record them as part of keyboard macros, although I have never had a need to do that and cannot think of one. > Which only means it has no priority. But considering there are 4.7k open issues and 103k closed, taking a single issue is just a hint that the community is likely not pushing hard enough for this specific issue. Let me explain how this "Open Source" thing works: you can submit a patch, you don't need to "push hard" on Daddy Microsoft.

by d0mine 6y ago

jolux 6y ago

>VSCode is much more popular today. Emacs is GPL -- I expect it to be there in 20 years too. I won't trust Microsoft long term. VSCode is open source, too. There are forks with the Microsoft IP removed from it. I believe Eclipse and RedHat maintain one now as well. Other than that I basically agree with you. I much prefer Emacs to VSCode, but there are annoying things about it that mean I don't want to use it full time.

mplanchard 6y ago
Many of the popular extensions developed by Microsoft (pylance for example), which are installed by default when you’re working on a given language, are proprietary.

neolog 6y ago

VSCode has a Magit port and at least two roam/org clones.

sedachv 6y ago

> Every keystroke is a programmable command in Emacs. VSCode is close. VSCode does not even have keyboard macros. Either "every keystroke is a programmable command" is not exactly what is going on in VSCode, or the VSCode users do not exactly understand what this "Open Source" thing is, because so far there has been 5 years of whining and 0 patches: https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode/issues/4490 https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode/issues/4490

slightwinder 6y ago
> VSCode does not even have keyboard macros. https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/search?term=macros&target=VSCode&category=All%20categories&sortBy=Relevance https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/search?term=macros&targ... > Either "every keystroke is a programmable command" is not exactly what is going on in VSCode There are commands (JavaScript-Functions) which one can be bind to keys. But who knows whether all keys have a command behind them? An with a GUI, I wondern whether all interactions are bindable commands. Mouse-Interaction, especially in context of some widget might be more complex to handle than just recording an input-flow. > because so far there has been 5 years of whining and 0 patches: https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode/issues/4490 https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode/issues/4490 Which only means it has no priority. But considering there are 4.7k open issues and 103k closed, taking a single issue is just a hint that the community is likely not pushing hard enough for this specific issue.
- sedachv 6y ago
  Since you were too lazy to check, I did the work, and I can say there is nothing that provides keyboard macros in the search link you posted. Here is the documentation that explains keyboard macros: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Keyboard-Macros.html https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Ke... > But who knows whether all keys have a command behind them? Yes, they literally do in Emacs. That is the whole point of this discussion. > An with a GUI, I wondern [sic] whether all interactions are bindable commands. Mouse-Interaction, especially in context of some widget might be more complex to handle than just recording an input-flow. Mouse events result in commands. You can record them as part of keyboard macros, although I have never had a need to do that and cannot think of one. > Which only means it has no priority. But considering there are 4.7k open issues and 103k closed, taking a single issue is just a hint that the community is likely not pushing hard enough for this specific issue. Let me explain how this "Open Source" thing works: you can submit a patch, you don't need to "push hard" on Daddy Microsoft.