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> I love Emacs, but I think it’s safe to say that it’s a lot harder to use than Visual Studio Code I actually find the opposite. As much as I dislike the clums

> I love Emacs, but I think it’s safe to say that it’s a lot harder to use than Visual Studio Code I actually find the opposite. As much as I dislike the clumsy GUI, I just keep coming back to Emacs for some things, for the sole reason that it's easier in Emacs. I find Emacs to be the easiest way to customize my text editor, and that's what makes it easy to get my work done. I've tried VS Code many times and I just don't see what's special about it.

dragonwriter 6y ago
I first used emacs 25ish years before VSCode existed and VSCode was pretty much immediately easier to use and customize; to be fair, it's not like I was using Emacs heavily in the intervening quarter century, but I was using it fairly regularly. OTOH, I have no problem believing someone using Emacs as a daily driver for years would find it easier (but I think most developers, and particularly newer developers—where the JS to Lisp familiarity ratio is much higher than for, say, those who got into coding in the 1980s or earlier—are going to more productive more quickly with VS Code.)
- d0mine 6y ago
  VSCode will likely get you to 80% productivity compared to Emacs pretty fast. The question how easy is to get from 80% to 100%. It is like a prototype vs. polished code: you can create something that provides 80% of the result over a weekend and then spend 2 years polishing it, to get remaining desired functionality. For example, I'm sure VSCode does git but does it as well as Magit? Everyday things can be done on muscle memory, most other things are much more discoverable than I've seen in any git interface (using other git interfaces is like walking in a office with your eyes closed vs open with magit). http://emacsrocks.com/e17.html http://emacsrocks.com/e17.html I'm sure VSCode does notes too but does it as well as Org mode? Org mode for me is an extension of my brain: it is a working memory that supports executing whatever task I do, it helps organize/automate tasks, it helps focus, etc. For people with ADHD like symptoms, I expect a life changing experience thanks to Org mode -- while other people should just become more productive in it. Every keystroke is a programmable command in Emacs. VSCode is close. I expect parity for programming modes. Most Emacs interactions are likely less pointy-n-clicky compared to VSCode: somehow pressing keychords steals my focus less than doing actions with a mouse for everyday things freeing the conscious brain to work on the task at hand. Emacs provides a unified interface for me e.g., searching/filtering lists https://writequit.org/denver-emacs/presentations/2017-04-11-ivy.html https://writequit.org/denver-emacs/presentations/2017-04-11-... Emacs doesn't do web browsing very well. I have to survive with Vimium. Does VSCode perform better here? VSCode is much more popular today. Emacs is GPL -- I expect it to be there in 20 years too. I won't trust Microsoft long term.
  - jolux 6y ago
    >VSCode is much more popular today. Emacs is GPL -- I expect it to be there in 20 years too. I won't trust Microsoft long term. VSCode is open source, too. There are forks with the Microsoft IP removed from it. I believe Eclipse and RedHat maintain one now as well. Other than that I basically agree with you. I much prefer Emacs to VSCode, but there are annoying things about it that mean I don't want to use it full time.
    - mplanchard 6y ago
      Many of the popular extensions developed by Microsoft (pylance for example), which are installed by default when you’re working on a given language, are proprietary.
  - neolog 6y ago
    VSCode has a Magit port and at least two roam/org clones.
  - sedachv 6y ago
    > Every keystroke is a programmable command in Emacs. VSCode is close. VSCode does not even have keyboard macros. Either "every keystroke is a programmable command" is not exactly what is going on in VSCode, or the VSCode users do not exactly understand what this "Open Source" thing is, because so far there has been 5 years of whining and 0 patches: https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode/issues/4490 https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode/issues/4490
    - slightwinder 6y ago
      > VSCode does not even have keyboard macros. https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/search?term=macros&target=VSCode&category=All%20categories&sortBy=Relevance https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/search?term=macros&targ... > Either "every keystroke is a programmable command" is not exactly what is going on in VSCode There are commands (JavaScript-Functions) which one can be bind to keys. But who knows whether all keys have a command behind them? An with a GUI, I wondern whether all interactions are bindable commands. Mouse-Interaction, especially in context of some widget might be more complex to handle than just recording an input-flow. > because so far there has been 5 years of whining and 0 patches: https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode/issues/4490 https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode/issues/4490 Which only means it has no priority. But considering there are 4.7k open issues and 103k closed, taking a single issue is just a hint that the community is likely not pushing hard enough for this specific issue.
deleted 6y ago
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oblio 6y ago
1. How long have you been using Emacs? 2. Did your journey into computing start with CLIs, TUIs, GUIs?
- bachmeier 6y ago
  1. About a decade probably. 2. It started in the 1980s, back when GUIs were considered a luxury upgrade for the wealthy. This was the first computer I ever owned: https://oldcomputers.net/trs80pc1.html https://oldcomputers.net/trs80pc1.html I'd say the biggest reason for the difference is because (by my understanding) you use JSON for configuration and write functions to extend VS Code using Typescript. I've never been a web developer and I've done very little with Typescript (and not much more with Javascript). OTOH, I've been using Lisp in various forms since forever. For me to pop open my .emacs, add an interactive function, and start using it is usually a couple minutes at most. Now I think most users of VS Code probably feel more comfortable with Typescript and JSON, but Emacs for me is just a dead easy thing due to my ability to customize tasks almost trivially.

dragonwriter 6y ago

I first used emacs 25ish years before VSCode existed and VSCode was pretty much immediately easier to use and customize; to be fair, it's not like I was using Emacs heavily in the intervening quarter century, but I was using it fairly regularly. OTOH, I have no problem believing someone using Emacs as a daily driver for years would find it easier (but I think most developers, and particularly newer developers—where the JS to Lisp familiarity ratio is much higher than for, say, those who got into coding in the 1980s or earlier—are going to more productive more quickly with VS Code.)

d0mine 6y ago
VSCode will likely get you to 80% productivity compared to Emacs pretty fast. The question how easy is to get from 80% to 100%. It is like a prototype vs. polished code: you can create something that provides 80% of the result over a weekend and then spend 2 years polishing it, to get remaining desired functionality. For example, I'm sure VSCode does git but does it as well as Magit? Everyday things can be done on muscle memory, most other things are much more discoverable than I've seen in any git interface (using other git interfaces is like walking in a office with your eyes closed vs open with magit). http://emacsrocks.com/e17.html http://emacsrocks.com/e17.html I'm sure VSCode does notes too but does it as well as Org mode? Org mode for me is an extension of my brain: it is a working memory that supports executing whatever task I do, it helps organize/automate tasks, it helps focus, etc. For people with ADHD like symptoms, I expect a life changing experience thanks to Org mode -- while other people should just become more productive in it. Every keystroke is a programmable command in Emacs. VSCode is close. I expect parity for programming modes. Most Emacs interactions are likely less pointy-n-clicky compared to VSCode: somehow pressing keychords steals my focus less than doing actions with a mouse for everyday things freeing the conscious brain to work on the task at hand. Emacs provides a unified interface for me e.g., searching/filtering lists https://writequit.org/denver-emacs/presentations/2017-04-11-ivy.html https://writequit.org/denver-emacs/presentations/2017-04-11-... Emacs doesn't do web browsing very well. I have to survive with Vimium. Does VSCode perform better here? VSCode is much more popular today. Emacs is GPL -- I expect it to be there in 20 years too. I won't trust Microsoft long term.
- jolux 6y ago
  >VSCode is much more popular today. Emacs is GPL -- I expect it to be there in 20 years too. I won't trust Microsoft long term. VSCode is open source, too. There are forks with the Microsoft IP removed from it. I believe Eclipse and RedHat maintain one now as well. Other than that I basically agree with you. I much prefer Emacs to VSCode, but there are annoying things about it that mean I don't want to use it full time.
  - mplanchard 6y ago
    Many of the popular extensions developed by Microsoft (pylance for example), which are installed by default when you’re working on a given language, are proprietary.
- neolog 6y ago
  VSCode has a Magit port and at least two roam/org clones.
- sedachv 6y ago
  > Every keystroke is a programmable command in Emacs. VSCode is close. VSCode does not even have keyboard macros. Either "every keystroke is a programmable command" is not exactly what is going on in VSCode, or the VSCode users do not exactly understand what this "Open Source" thing is, because so far there has been 5 years of whining and 0 patches: https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode/issues/4490 https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode/issues/4490
  - slightwinder 6y ago
    > VSCode does not even have keyboard macros. https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/search?term=macros&target=VSCode&category=All%20categories&sortBy=Relevance https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/search?term=macros&targ... > Either "every keystroke is a programmable command" is not exactly what is going on in VSCode There are commands (JavaScript-Functions) which one can be bind to keys. But who knows whether all keys have a command behind them? An with a GUI, I wondern whether all interactions are bindable commands. Mouse-Interaction, especially in context of some widget might be more complex to handle than just recording an input-flow. > because so far there has been 5 years of whining and 0 patches: https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode/issues/4490 https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode/issues/4490 Which only means it has no priority. But considering there are 4.7k open issues and 103k closed, taking a single issue is just a hint that the community is likely not pushing hard enough for this specific issue.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

oblio 6y ago

1. How long have you been using Emacs? 2. Did your journey into computing start with CLIs, TUIs, GUIs?

bachmeier 6y ago
1. About a decade probably. 2. It started in the 1980s, back when GUIs were considered a luxury upgrade for the wealthy. This was the first computer I ever owned: https://oldcomputers.net/trs80pc1.html https://oldcomputers.net/trs80pc1.html I'd say the biggest reason for the difference is because (by my understanding) you use JSON for configuration and write functions to extend VS Code using Typescript. I've never been a web developer and I've done very little with Typescript (and not much more with Javascript). OTOH, I've been using Lisp in various forms since forever. For me to pop open my .emacs, add an interactive function, and start using it is usually a couple minutes at most. Now I think most users of VS Code probably feel more comfortable with Typescript and JSON, but Emacs for me is just a dead easy thing due to my ability to customize tasks almost trivially.