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If emacs adopted vim-like keybindings early on the war would have ended. It's the only reason I stick with vim, and I suspect I'm not alone. Yes, yes, evil mo

If emacs adopted vim-like keybindings early on the war would have ended. It's the only reason I stick with vim, and I suspect I'm not alone. Yes, yes, evil mode and whatever, but it's not seamless - you still have to get familiar with emacs keybindings.

anschwa 6y ago
I'm not sure I agree keybindings were/are the significant factor. The editors have a completely different history and their authors come from very different backgrounds.
- colordrops 6y ago
  I'm talking about the war of usage/mindshare rather than a war between the authors.
ed25519FUUU 6y ago
Vi/m won the distribution war. It’s everywhere. It’s on every Unix-like system I’ve ever used.
- GlennS 6y ago
  On the other hand, Emacs keybindings are the default at every terminal.
  - lenkite 6y ago
    1 liner change by set -o vi and you can live in a better world.
mcbuilder 6y ago
I am not sure. Sure with deamon mode and lazy loading emacs can be really fast to start up and open files nowadays, but the old joke was EMACS stood for "eights megs and constantly swapping". Evil mode is just the more recent iteration of vim keybindings in EMACS that go all the way back to modes like viper mode.
- colordrops 6y ago
  Most vi users actually use vim or neovim with complicated configs and dozens of plugins - setting up daemon mode and lazy loading would not be a problem. Emacs would be my daily driver if it had native vi keybindings. And i could go back to vi/vim if I logged into a server and had to edit a file.
mattl 6y ago
Emacs was 21-ish when vim came along
- samatman 6y ago
  vi and emacs were released in the same year. The fact that vi iMproved became the dominant implementation isn't particularly relevant here.
  - mattl 6y ago
    Are vim users going to be able to use vi? Genuine question. I’ve barely used either.
    - colordrops 6y ago
      Yes, vim is a superset of vi
  - BeetleB 6y ago
    > The fact that vi iMproved became the dominant implementation isn't particularly relevant here. I think it is. Most vim users I know have never used vi and would hate it. As a reminder: In vi, when you go into "insert" mode, you cannot edit anything prior to where the cursor was when you entered insert mode. vim got rid of such annoyances.
    - samatman 6y ago
      The topic of discussion was: > If emacs adopted vim-like keybindings early on I consider it obvious that "vim-like" keybindings are also "vi-like" keybindings, and that emacs could in fact have adopted them before the invention of vim. It wouldn't have of course; when the Editor Wars were truly raging, the modal vs. modeless debate was at the heart of the partisanship. But that's a separate question.
coliveira 6y ago
It they do a vim emulation that is good enough, then Emacs will eventually vanish... everyone will effectively use vim on different implementations.

anschwa 6y ago

I'm not sure I agree keybindings were/are the significant factor. The editors have a completely different history and their authors come from very different backgrounds.

colordrops 6y ago
I'm talking about the war of usage/mindshare rather than a war between the authors.

ed25519FUUU 6y ago

Vi/m won the distribution war. It’s everywhere. It’s on every Unix-like system I’ve ever used.

GlennS 6y ago
On the other hand, Emacs keybindings are the default at every terminal.
- lenkite 6y ago
  1 liner change by set -o vi and you can live in a better world.

mcbuilder 6y ago

I am not sure. Sure with deamon mode and lazy loading emacs can be really fast to start up and open files nowadays, but the old joke was EMACS stood for "eights megs and constantly swapping". Evil mode is just the more recent iteration of vim keybindings in EMACS that go all the way back to modes like viper mode.

colordrops 6y ago
Most vi users actually use vim or neovim with complicated configs and dozens of plugins - setting up daemon mode and lazy loading would not be a problem. Emacs would be my daily driver if it had native vi keybindings. And i could go back to vi/vim if I logged into a server and had to edit a file.

mattl 6y ago

Emacs was 21-ish when vim came along

samatman 6y ago
vi and emacs were released in the same year. The fact that vi iMproved became the dominant implementation isn't particularly relevant here.
- mattl 6y ago
  Are vim users going to be able to use vi? Genuine question. I’ve barely used either.
  - colordrops 6y ago
    Yes, vim is a superset of vi
- BeetleB 6y ago
  > The fact that vi iMproved became the dominant implementation isn't particularly relevant here. I think it is. Most vim users I know have never used vi and would hate it. As a reminder: In vi, when you go into "insert" mode, you cannot edit anything prior to where the cursor was when you entered insert mode. vim got rid of such annoyances.
  - samatman 6y ago
    The topic of discussion was: > If emacs adopted vim-like keybindings early on I consider it obvious that "vim-like" keybindings are also "vi-like" keybindings, and that emacs could in fact have adopted them before the invention of vim. It wouldn't have of course; when the Editor Wars were truly raging, the modal vs. modeless debate was at the heart of the partisanship. But that's a separate question.

coliveira 6y ago

It they do a vim emulation that is good enough, then Emacs will eventually vanish... everyone will effectively use vim on different implementations.