4 ms·

I had watched some of this review[0] before, and I'm surprised this article dismisses the need for a heatsink, while the video review I've linked says > you ne

I had watched some of this review[0] before, and I'm surprised this article dismisses the need for a heatsink, while the video review I've linked says > you need to make sure you're using a heatsink. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M059dQg3d5c&t=569s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M059dQg3d5c&t=569s There's a section called "Fire! (Not really)" which demonstrates the 100°C temperatures "within minutes of testing".

wtallis 6y ago
The problem with that kind of test is the "within minutes of testing" bit. You can't keep a drive this fast 100% busy for multiple minutes in a row unless you have specifically set out to create a workload to torture the drive.
- AdrianB1 6y ago
  I built a computer 2 years ago to do some database cleanup. Part of the regular process is to restore a database from a compressed backup to a terabyte data file, it works fine on S750 but it always gets in thermal throttling on a Samsung Evo Plus 870, all with heatsinks and good airflow (rackmount case with many chassis fans). Restoring 1TB at 1.7GB/sec takes enough time to get into trouble and this is regular work done almost daily, not a test. I plan to build a second computer for this work, but this time with PCIe v4 SSDs; this is to expand capacity, not because I think it will have less problems or be faster overall, a throttled disk is painfully slow.
  - wtallis 6y ago
    That doesn't sound like thermal throttling. That sounds like you're running out of SLC cache space and writing at TLC speed, minus the overhead of the drive flushing the SLC cache in the background while you're still writing more data. The solution is to get an enterprise drive, because they don't use SLC write caching and can usually sustain somewhat better write speeds as a result (plus, they're generally rated for more write endurance).
    - AdrianB1 6y ago
      Except that the transfer speed and drive temperature are linked together, we checked many times. If I do the same operation on 2 drives from 2 vendors and one works just fine and the other one shows 15 degrees C more on the same workload that almost fills and entire drive, what has SLC to do with this?
      - wtallis 6y ago
        Without knowing exactly what two drives you're comparing, I can't give you a clear answer. But it still sounds like you're deciding that the temperature is the cause of the performance difference, without having any evidence to rule out the possibility that the your temperature and performance observations are two different consequences of an underlying hardware difference between the two different drives.
  - Daho0n 6y ago
    So enterprise usage.
PragmaticPulp 6y ago
It's rare to find real-world workloads that stress SSDs like these synthetic benchmarks. It's mostly a problem with synthetic benchmarks. Heatsinks like the big chunk of metal in that video are only really good for delaying thermal throttling by adding extra thermal mass. The drive will still hit 100C and still throttle if you push it hard enough. Only airflow will remove heat from the drive. If someone has workloads that are so consistently intense that throttling is causing an impact, they probably shouldn't be using consumer drives anyway. Server grade drives are designed for sustained workloads. When your drive can sustain 7GB/sec read speeds and 5GB/sec write speeds, you can read an entire 1TB drive in about 2.5 minutes and write the entire drive in 3.5 minutes. Throttling will kick in after a minute or two, but the bigger problem is that if you're doing this consistently you're going to exhaust the drive's 600TBW write endurance very quickly. In theory, if throttling wasn't an issue you could consume the entire drive's write endurance in a matter of days. If you're doing that level of writing, it's time to upgrade to more appropriate hardware.
- neolog 6y ago
  > If you're doing that level of writing, it's time to upgrade to more appropriate hardware. What is the right hardware for that kind of workload?
  - eropple 6y ago
    You're starting to get into (battery-backed, if you need persistence) DRAM territory for those sorts of workloads. And you'll pay for it, but it's going to last a lot longer.
  - katbyte 6y ago
    intel optane perhapes
- asdff 6y ago
  A good heatsink should do more than that. You add more surface area and therefore more air with your existing airflow passing over more metal to transfer more heat from the drive at a time. It's not just a sponge for heat, they are designed to shed it as well with their fins to maximize surface area exposed to air.
walrus01 6y ago
If one doesn't want to buy the official RGB-colored gaming model with the samsung heatsink on it, and you know what the vertical clearance is above your M.2 slot on a motherboard, it's totally possible to buy your own low cost small aluminum heatsinks and stick them on with heatsink adhesive. Not very different from the cheap aluminum heatsinks you see people putting on the CPU of a raspberry pi. Sufficient airflow across the motherboard is also important, of course. https://www.ebay.com/itm/20Pc-ST036Y-12-12-3MM-Aluminum-Heatsinks-Chip-Small-Electronic-Radiator-Thermal/114558256156?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item1aac34441c:g:If4AAOSwlRVfynm-&amdata=enc%3AAQAFAAACgBaobrjLl8XobRIiIML1V4Imu%252Fn%252BzU5L90Z278x5ickkAgU0umhwUTmgTFbE5cu7zaRBzoNh8UGQMVjUnMK%252BYUwDgVGTspyItNBA1URmj6RASN6vajf8jOtzjkcCpACT98D2LfbgNdhCQ1meowni6LuAPrSKax%252B8h1x9k8X9LS3VjB6nb5ka4e9y8KSP4cc2XK%252BTvdfOUwM%252FzYwFkPMxf%252FfjX82W98jcxCkOvTr4rv52UkZGIB6hyM58g9gxq7dsM8gkX3UrbjJ3lNr3XgGKTpADz7vyxTAat4QV8RpmZX4PWcoWmPn54YRSFDGBCpicfpj95oLriruP23GzwDGxP6jsSeRiUFS2HWXttSETjALQrJlU%252FW1VYs9DWXwdYOfbAh4lDtYJbFnk%252FjWAwrHFNrJYGWI6tVs1lGVi3N34L97e4ua7kFvDZpz8vXOOPoy3%252BjsbGg%252Bvztzo0EU40HE9Xg%252FXkkgqbNTOMjO5dx52dZm63jcqbMY13E3BFBM9T8lV%252FyEbLG6niwGTABEttBQNia4glWEPsMMqpFDQTH83TWTZFg51Ji0sWOWDa%252F9QFHU%252BpZw8dkzFou7jlGvDWXeKTRjLlU9ZWivZTE2Auo%252Bg39xqys2DxzLa3osjwKEV1lRZ62yavXXr1usdHspzkRKshOirwLsUFKW8gXmOhV7DKkXQF9BrnAwi4%252B2mUsTVCIa%252FG1KIg47ZRBcbPOI3z4WE7GPNdMAVIOXZBQ9vcq9IJvgKLaAGFPFq3lg2Q9dh%252FAQ9Q7nMnUkJtYa%252FTAhuYjTCI7Bd1zQ2me0eRfBggXcceSfiGOWCfiwzpOO2xlcXlHmx15iDe48IY1Cclvl6cK8x3wI%253D%7Ccksum%3A114558256156308b141f89d247548e8b99b61b49a4a1%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2334524 https://www.ebay.com/itm/20Pc-ST036Y-12-12-3MM-Aluminum-Heat... https://www.ebay.com/itm/12pcs-14x14x6mm-Small-Anodized-Heatsink-CoolerGKWIXIHHGEDLfi/193928853094?hash=item2d270f7666:g:7wEAAOSwdoJbNK4S https://www.ebay.com/itm/12pcs-14x14x6mm-Small-Anodized-Heat... https://www.ebay.com/itm/12pcs-Small-Aluminum-Heatsink-Cooling-Kit-with-Adhesive-Glue-on-Back-14x14x6mm/373391716882?hash=item56efe17212:g:wAwAAOSwAepd~Vkt https://www.ebay.com/itm/12pcs-Small-Aluminum-Heatsink-Cooli... In addition to non-adhesive thermal paste, everyone should have a small tube of heatsink adhesive for building modern x86-64 desktop PCs from parts.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

wtallis 6y ago

The problem with that kind of test is the "within minutes of testing" bit. You can't keep a drive this fast 100% busy for multiple minutes in a row unless you have specifically set out to create a workload to torture the drive.

AdrianB1 6y ago
I built a computer 2 years ago to do some database cleanup. Part of the regular process is to restore a database from a compressed backup to a terabyte data file, it works fine on S750 but it always gets in thermal throttling on a Samsung Evo Plus 870, all with heatsinks and good airflow (rackmount case with many chassis fans). Restoring 1TB at 1.7GB/sec takes enough time to get into trouble and this is regular work done almost daily, not a test. I plan to build a second computer for this work, but this time with PCIe v4 SSDs; this is to expand capacity, not because I think it will have less problems or be faster overall, a throttled disk is painfully slow.
- wtallis 6y ago
  That doesn't sound like thermal throttling. That sounds like you're running out of SLC cache space and writing at TLC speed, minus the overhead of the drive flushing the SLC cache in the background while you're still writing more data. The solution is to get an enterprise drive, because they don't use SLC write caching and can usually sustain somewhat better write speeds as a result (plus, they're generally rated for more write endurance).
  - AdrianB1 6y ago
    Except that the transfer speed and drive temperature are linked together, we checked many times. If I do the same operation on 2 drives from 2 vendors and one works just fine and the other one shows 15 degrees C more on the same workload that almost fills and entire drive, what has SLC to do with this?
    - wtallis 6y ago
      Without knowing exactly what two drives you're comparing, I can't give you a clear answer. But it still sounds like you're deciding that the temperature is the cause of the performance difference, without having any evidence to rule out the possibility that the your temperature and performance observations are two different consequences of an underlying hardware difference between the two different drives.
- Daho0n 6y ago
  So enterprise usage.

PragmaticPulp 6y ago

It's rare to find real-world workloads that stress SSDs like these synthetic benchmarks. It's mostly a problem with synthetic benchmarks. Heatsinks like the big chunk of metal in that video are only really good for delaying thermal throttling by adding extra thermal mass. The drive will still hit 100C and still throttle if you push it hard enough. Only airflow will remove heat from the drive. If someone has workloads that are so consistently intense that throttling is causing an impact, they probably shouldn't be using consumer drives anyway. Server grade drives are designed for sustained workloads. When your drive can sustain 7GB/sec read speeds and 5GB/sec write speeds, you can read an entire 1TB drive in about 2.5 minutes and write the entire drive in 3.5 minutes. Throttling will kick in after a minute or two, but the bigger problem is that if you're doing this consistently you're going to exhaust the drive's 600TBW write endurance very quickly. In theory, if throttling wasn't an issue you could consume the entire drive's write endurance in a matter of days. If you're doing that level of writing, it's time to upgrade to more appropriate hardware.

neolog 6y ago
> If you're doing that level of writing, it's time to upgrade to more appropriate hardware. What is the right hardware for that kind of workload?
- eropple 6y ago
  You're starting to get into (battery-backed, if you need persistence) DRAM territory for those sorts of workloads. And you'll pay for it, but it's going to last a lot longer.
- katbyte 6y ago
  intel optane perhapes
asdff 6y ago
A good heatsink should do more than that. You add more surface area and therefore more air with your existing airflow passing over more metal to transfer more heat from the drive at a time. It's not just a sponge for heat, they are designed to shed it as well with their fins to maximize surface area exposed to air.

walrus01 6y ago

If one doesn't want to buy the official RGB-colored gaming model with the samsung heatsink on it, and you know what the vertical clearance is above your M.2 slot on a motherboard, it's totally possible to buy your own low cost small aluminum heatsinks and stick them on with heatsink adhesive. Not very different from the cheap aluminum heatsinks you see people putting on the CPU of a raspberry pi. Sufficient airflow across the motherboard is also important, of course. https://www.ebay.com/itm/20Pc-ST036Y-12-12-3MM-Aluminum-Heatsinks-Chip-Small-Electronic-Radiator-Thermal/114558256156?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item1aac34441c:g:If4AAOSwlRVfynm-&amdata=enc%3AAQAFAAACgBaobrjLl8XobRIiIML1V4Imu%252Fn%252BzU5L90Z278x5ickkAgU0umhwUTmgTFbE5cu7zaRBzoNh8UGQMVjUnMK%252BYUwDgVGTspyItNBA1URmj6RASN6vajf8jOtzjkcCpACT98D2LfbgNdhCQ1meowni6LuAPrSKax%252B8h1x9k8X9LS3VjB6nb5ka4e9y8KSP4cc2XK%252BTvdfOUwM%252FzYwFkPMxf%252FfjX82W98jcxCkOvTr4rv52UkZGIB6hyM58g9gxq7dsM8gkX3UrbjJ3lNr3XgGKTpADz7vyxTAat4QV8RpmZX4PWcoWmPn54YRSFDGBCpicfpj95oLriruP23GzwDGxP6jsSeRiUFS2HWXttSETjALQrJlU%252FW1VYs9DWXwdYOfbAh4lDtYJbFnk%252FjWAwrHFNrJYGWI6tVs1lGVi3N34L97e4ua7kFvDZpz8vXOOPoy3%252BjsbGg%252Bvztzo0EU40HE9Xg%252FXkkgqbNTOMjO5dx52dZm63jcqbMY13E3BFBM9T8lV%252FyEbLG6niwGTABEttBQNia4glWEPsMMqpFDQTH83TWTZFg51Ji0sWOWDa%252F9QFHU%252BpZw8dkzFou7jlGvDWXeKTRjLlU9ZWivZTE2Auo%252Bg39xqys2DxzLa3osjwKEV1lRZ62yavXXr1usdHspzkRKshOirwLsUFKW8gXmOhV7DKkXQF9BrnAwi4%252B2mUsTVCIa%252FG1KIg47ZRBcbPOI3z4WE7GPNdMAVIOXZBQ9vcq9IJvgKLaAGFPFq3lg2Q9dh%252FAQ9Q7nMnUkJtYa%252FTAhuYjTCI7Bd1zQ2me0eRfBggXcceSfiGOWCfiwzpOO2xlcXlHmx15iDe48IY1Cclvl6cK8x3wI%253D%7Ccksum%3A114558256156308b141f89d247548e8b99b61b49a4a1%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2334524 https://www.ebay.com/itm/20Pc-ST036Y-12-12-3MM-Aluminum-Heat... https://www.ebay.com/itm/12pcs-14x14x6mm-Small-Anodized-Heatsink-CoolerGKWIXIHHGEDLfi/193928853094?hash=item2d270f7666:g:7wEAAOSwdoJbNK4S https://www.ebay.com/itm/12pcs-14x14x6mm-Small-Anodized-Heat... https://www.ebay.com/itm/12pcs-Small-Aluminum-Heatsink-Cooling-Kit-with-Adhesive-Glue-on-Back-14x14x6mm/373391716882?hash=item56efe17212:g:wAwAAOSwAepd~Vkt https://www.ebay.com/itm/12pcs-Small-Aluminum-Heatsink-Cooli... In addition to non-adhesive thermal paste, everyone should have a small tube of heatsink adhesive for building modern x86-64 desktop PCs from parts.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]