3 ms·

I dare say that if such a letter were to be sent from a company in my country, it would be grounds for legal retaliation. Why would you put insults into writing

I dare say that if such a letter were to be sent from a company in my country, it would be grounds for legal retaliation. Why would you put insults into writing, in official letters no less?

jjcon 6y ago
Are insults illegal where you are?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- mschild 6y ago
  In Germany, yes.[0] Aside from that, in Germany it's a common practice to get an Arbeitszeugniss. It's essentially a transcript from your employer stating how you performed while on the job. By law it's has to be formulated to be positive about the employee. Because of this, you often have to read between the lines to understand the actual meaning of the transcript. [0] http://legaldb.freemedia.at/legal-database/germany/ http://legaldb.freemedia.at/legal-database/germany/
  - harha 6y ago
    Doesn't fix the problem though in case you have a bad manager. They will just be more subtle with their message.
    - riidom 6y ago
      Yes, there are common phrases used as codes. For example "made a highly competent job" -> very good; "made a very competent job" -> good; "made a compentent job" -> mediocre; "always aimed to make a competent job" -> really bad
harha 6y ago
That might be the exact reason they wouldn't put it in writing, but there are many "reputable" businesses in Europe and elsewhere with horrible conduct towards employees, with limited options to defend themselves for the employee without risking being worse off for the next career steps.
varispeed 6y ago
Depends how your salary is, but typically you won't do anything. I have witnessed a friend being bullied in such a way. She had to find about £5000 to pay for a solicitor to help her with employment tribunal case. Such money is out of reach to most employees. Yes, she tried "free" help that is available, but those people were useless, especially the union. Those people were not listening and were interested in checking the boxes and following templates and they made it worse in terms of mental health as my friend started losing hope. I helped her find a solicitor and paid first instalment, without my help she would go nowhere. In the end the employer settled - covered the solicitor costs, damages and gave good references so she could find a better job. The bullying employee continued to work there and was not sacked. Her ex-work friends kept struggling but had no means to do anything.
anonymousab 6y ago
Sometimes they're just stupid. But I wouldn't be surprised if it was simply the case that it's what they do, it's what they've always done, and it sometimes works, so why stop now? And maybe it's normalized; maybe you go to the bar with some managers at other companies and they talk about doing the same things. If the average person in this situation just wants to move on, and get away as fast as possible, then maybe they're more prone to giving in to your demands than fighting back. Probably mostly the first part.

I dare say that if such a letter were to be sent from a company in my country, it would be grounds for legal retaliation. Why would you put insults into writing, in official letters no less?

jjcon 6y ago

Are insults illegal where you are?

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
mschild 6y ago
In Germany, yes.[0] Aside from that, in Germany it's a common practice to get an Arbeitszeugniss. It's essentially a transcript from your employer stating how you performed while on the job. By law it's has to be formulated to be positive about the employee. Because of this, you often have to read between the lines to understand the actual meaning of the transcript. [0] http://legaldb.freemedia.at/legal-database/germany/ http://legaldb.freemedia.at/legal-database/germany/
- harha 6y ago
  Doesn't fix the problem though in case you have a bad manager. They will just be more subtle with their message.
  - riidom 6y ago
    Yes, there are common phrases used as codes. For example "made a highly competent job" -> very good; "made a very competent job" -> good; "made a compentent job" -> mediocre; "always aimed to make a competent job" -> really bad

harha 6y ago

That might be the exact reason they wouldn't put it in writing, but there are many "reputable" businesses in Europe and elsewhere with horrible conduct towards employees, with limited options to defend themselves for the employee without risking being worse off for the next career steps.

varispeed 6y ago

Depends how your salary is, but typically you won't do anything. I have witnessed a friend being bullied in such a way. She had to find about £5000 to pay for a solicitor to help her with employment tribunal case. Such money is out of reach to most employees. Yes, she tried "free" help that is available, but those people were useless, especially the union. Those people were not listening and were interested in checking the boxes and following templates and they made it worse in terms of mental health as my friend started losing hope. I helped her find a solicitor and paid first instalment, without my help she would go nowhere. In the end the employer settled - covered the solicitor costs, damages and gave good references so she could find a better job. The bullying employee continued to work there and was not sacked. Her ex-work friends kept struggling but had no means to do anything.

anonymousab 6y ago

Sometimes they're just stupid. But I wouldn't be surprised if it was simply the case that it's what they do, it's what they've always done, and it sometimes works, so why stop now? And maybe it's normalized; maybe you go to the bar with some managers at other companies and they talk about doing the same things. If the average person in this situation just wants to move on, and get away as fast as possible, then maybe they're more prone to giving in to your demands than fighting back. Probably mostly the first part.