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"So, you don't believe in innovation on demand." The demand for cleaner energy is here now. Lomborg wants to dismiss that. His argument is biting it's own head

by Tichy 15y ago

"So, you don't believe in innovation on demand." The demand for cleaner energy is here now. Lomborg wants to dismiss that. His argument is biting it's own head off.

gaius 15y ago
But it isn't, tho'. Sure people might say they want clean energy, but to see what people truly believe, you have to observe how they spend their own money, given a choice of alternatives. And it's on air travel, cars and ever-more personal electronics and electrical mod-cons.
- Tichy 15y ago
  They buy air travel to nicer places (less polluted) to make holidays, because where they live is not pretty anymore. And I think it is because these things are often disconnected. If you buy an iPad, the waste ends up in China, not on your front lawn. Maybe if you would have to pay by converting parts of your garden into a toxic waste dump, you would act differently. Besides, I am not convinced that it is a decision between "enjoying the fruits of technology and destroying our world or living like in the stone age, but sustainable". Waste from producing iPads can be processed properly, rather than dumping it into the nearest river. It is a matter of figuring out the proper ways of conduct and proper prices.
  - gaius 15y ago
    You're right, but if people want to do a thing, you don't have to pass a law to make them. http://ec.europa.eu/environment/waste/weee/index_en.htm http://ec.europa.eu/environment/waste/weee/index_en.htm
    - Tichy 15y ago
      It's certainly preferable to get by without laws, especially as most laws probably get it wrong. It's not trivial to find another way, though. I could imagine that modern technology could enable more transparency, allowing consumers to make better choices.
  - scythe 15y ago
    >They buy air travel to nicer places (less polluted) to make holidays, because where they live is not pretty anymore. The latest in argument tactics is just plain old making shit up, huh? >Besides, I am not convinced that it is a decision between "enjoying the fruits of technology and destroying our world or living like in the stone age, but sustainable". Waste from producing iPads can be processed properly, rather than dumping it into the nearest river. It is a matter of figuring out the proper ways of conduct and proper prices. Sounds like you're in agreement with the author! Scientific progress is not instantaneous. It does not go boink. The capacity to solve many of our current problems exists, but any programmer ought to know that implementation is never the easy part.

by Tichy 15y ago

"So, you don't believe in innovation on demand." The demand for cleaner energy is here now. Lomborg wants to dismiss that. His argument is biting it's own head off.

gaius 15y ago

But it isn't, tho'. Sure people might say they want clean energy, but to see what people truly believe, you have to observe how they spend their own money, given a choice of alternatives. And it's on air travel, cars and ever-more personal electronics and electrical mod-cons.

Tichy 15y ago
They buy air travel to nicer places (less polluted) to make holidays, because where they live is not pretty anymore. And I think it is because these things are often disconnected. If you buy an iPad, the waste ends up in China, not on your front lawn. Maybe if you would have to pay by converting parts of your garden into a toxic waste dump, you would act differently. Besides, I am not convinced that it is a decision between "enjoying the fruits of technology and destroying our world or living like in the stone age, but sustainable". Waste from producing iPads can be processed properly, rather than dumping it into the nearest river. It is a matter of figuring out the proper ways of conduct and proper prices.
- gaius 15y ago
  You're right, but if people want to do a thing, you don't have to pass a law to make them. http://ec.europa.eu/environment/waste/weee/index_en.htm http://ec.europa.eu/environment/waste/weee/index_en.htm
  - Tichy 15y ago
    It's certainly preferable to get by without laws, especially as most laws probably get it wrong. It's not trivial to find another way, though. I could imagine that modern technology could enable more transparency, allowing consumers to make better choices.
- scythe 15y ago
  >They buy air travel to nicer places (less polluted) to make holidays, because where they live is not pretty anymore. The latest in argument tactics is just plain old making shit up, huh? >Besides, I am not convinced that it is a decision between "enjoying the fruits of technology and destroying our world or living like in the stone age, but sustainable". Waste from producing iPads can be processed properly, rather than dumping it into the nearest river. It is a matter of figuring out the proper ways of conduct and proper prices. Sounds like you're in agreement with the author! Scientific progress is not instantaneous. It does not go boink. The capacity to solve many of our current problems exists, but any programmer ought to know that implementation is never the easy part.