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Personally, i'd like to see AI used for "simple" things, not often tied to the core gameplay loop itself. Ie conceptually if you could tie the right gameplay co
by adkadskhj 6y ago
Personally, i'd like to see AI used for "simple" things, not often tied to the core gameplay loop itself. Ie conceptually if you could tie the right gameplay components to an RNG function then the user could get new/unexpected experiences for a longer time. The problem is RNG often makes crap outputs.
I'd be curious to see ML take this problem. I imagine the examples are limitless, but one that comes to mind might be procedural worlds. Rather than tuning procedural worlds around seed values, what would it look like if we try to get an ML to craft the worlds? Procedurally generated worlds often have that feeling. Things don't make sense, etc. I imagine ML could make some far more diverse patterns that are both interesting and fun.
I'd like to see this pattern of "informed RNG" in a lot of things. Skyrim with NPC patterns to feel a bit more authentic. Etc.
I'm less interested in the classic AI dreams inside games, as it seems far out and less gamey. But our current games with informed RNG? That sounds.. neat.
- Jasper_ 6y agoML is a system that takes a large data set, and an error function, and finds a generated output that minimizes the loss. What data set and error function are you proposing for "RNG"?
- matsemann 6y agoThat's a wrong simplification of ML. Take RL for instance. And the parent already explained a concept: generating maps. It could still have an RNG as the base (noise function over something), but then use ML to place elements based on existing human-made maps.
- malka 6y agoYou feed it rng created world that were curated by humans.
- jonbaer 6y agoI think you are right. There are SO many small mini games inside of nearly all RTS games which AI has yet to actually conquer, I will give another simple example, given a random map (and resources) identify chokepoints. As a human this is a huge clue on how to go about a game strategy (policy) but I have yet to find an AI do this (or optimize that part). From what I gather most time is spent on actually optimizing random build orders and modifying them along the way.
- loosetypes 6y ago+1 among my favorite aspects in certain rts games. My favorite case is empire earth, where there’s randomness in resource clustering as well as natural terrain. Depending on your strategy/units (and your opponents’) it’s increasingly grey whether a locale is even a choke point. The homogeneity of, for example, Starcraft maps and limited unit options always made me feel like we were playing on an excel spreadsheet.
- jonbaer 6y agoThis sounds very familiar to the game I play 0ad (https://play0ad.com/ https://play0ad.com/), you have to actually find an enjoyable way to play RTS games but in this game I pick myself vs. 7 AI with a random map, you never get the same allies and how you develop a strategy around the market (ie. chokepoints) is a good 20% of the game. I just wish the AI decisions on diplomacy weren't so random but it sounds like that mini game will soon be solved, https://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/robotics/artificial-intelligence/ai-learns-diplomacy-gaming https://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/robotics/artificial-inte...
- juanuys 6y ago> Procedurally generated worlds often have that feeling. Things don't make sense, etc Spelunky randomly stitches together pre-authored rooms (more like room patterns, each with a sprinkling of RNG) to get around this. https://bossfightbooks.com/products/spelunky-by-derek-yu https://bossfightbooks.com/products/spelunky-by-derek-yu