3 ms·

Got any evidence, tangible or otherwise, of (2)?

by sbuk 6y ago

littlestymaar 6y ago
In French[1] (2014) linking to a Bloomberg link behind a paywall[2]. There's no evidence that they have done anything like this yet, but they at least considered it and their privacy policies allows it as soon as they decide it's worth it. And you wouldn't necessarily know it. Just because a company's marketing says they respect your privacy doesn't mean they do, especially when their privacy policy says they can. [1]: https://www.numerama.com/magazine/30323-apple-approche-les-mutuelles-pour-divulguer-le-comportement-des-assures.html https://www.numerama.com/magazine/30323-apple-approche-les-m... [2]: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-08-21/wear-this-device-so-the-boss-knows-you-re-losing-weight https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-08-21/wear-this...
- sbuk 6y ago
  So your first source (from 2014) is based on Withings working with AXA and is also speculation based on your second source, who's reporting it must be pointed out is of an extremely dubious nature (cf. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-hack-how-china-used-a-tiny-chip-to-infiltrate-america-s-top-companies https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-h...) which has been debunked and vehemently refuted by all parties, including the very sources Bloomberg cite in the article. Sorry, no. Did Apple consider it? Possibly, in fact it almost a certainty. More importantly, did the act on it? No. Nothing wrong with exploring options. Let's not engage in slippery-slope hypotheses. > Just because a company's marketing says they respect your privacy doesn't mean they do, especially when their privacy policy says they can. You still haven't shown us where it says they can. I'll take your word for it...
  - littlestymaar 6y ago
    > You still haven't shown us where it says they can. I'll take your word for it... Yes I did a few comments above, but no problem I'll repeat it : > (in the the Apple’s Sharing of Personal Data section): > Apple may share personal data with […] Partners. At times, Apple may partner with third parties to provide services or other offerings.
    - sbuk 6y ago
      Apple may share personal data with service providers who act on our behalf, our partners, or others at your direction. Further, Apple does not share personal data with third parties for their own marketing purposes. Service Providers. Apple may engage third parties to act as our service providers and perform certain tasks on our behalf, such as delivering products to customers. Apple service providers are obligated to handle personal data consistent with this Privacy Policy and according to our instructions. They cannot use the personal data we share for their own purposes and must delete or return the personal data once they've fulfilled our request. Partners. At times, Apple may partner with third parties to provide services or other offerings. For example, Apple financial offerings like Apple Card and Apple Cash are offered by Apple and our partners. Apple requires its partners to protect your personal data. Others. Apple may share personal data with others at your direction or with your consent, such as when we share information with your carrier to activate your account. We may also disclose information about you if we determine that for purposes of national security, law enforcement, or other issues of public importance, disclosure is necessary or appropriate. We may also disclose information about you where there is a lawful basis for doing so, if we determine that disclosure is reasonably necessary to enforce our terms and conditions or to protect our operations or users, or in the event of a reorganization, merger, or sale. I think you are clutching at straws, based on shoddy information. The above seems unambiguous to me.
      - littlestymaar 6y ago
        You're right, it is pretty unambiguous: they can share with any partner they like, for any reason other than marketing with the only condition being that the partner “protects personal data”. That's it. No other limits or restrictions. So yes, partnering with a insurance company is allowed by their privacy policies. If you want to have faith that Apple will never do evil things with your data and that their is nothing to worry about, that's up to you. I have plenty of friends who thinks the same about Facebook or Google you know…
        sbuk 6y ago
        > * littlestymaar 1 day ago [–] Too bad this is only available on a operating system that spies on its users. (Sorry Apple fans, it does and while their marketing tries to hide it as much as possible, their privacy policies don't lie : https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/en-ww/ https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/en-ww/)* You were asked for evidence and failed to provide any. You have now moved the goal posts, first by saying they’ve considered ‘selling’ health data to insurance companies, now it’s they might do it, so therefore they are. Apple aren’t perfect in any way, but what you are asserting is bullshit. To your point on Google and Facebook - it can be demonstrated that they are doing shitty things with peoples data, something you have utterly failed to do in Apples case. As the Romans said, shit or get off the pot.

Got any evidence, tangible or otherwise, of (2)?

by sbuk 6y ago

Got any evidence, tangible or otherwise, of (2)?

In French[1] (2014) linking to a Bloomberg link behind a paywall[2]. There's no evidence that they have done anything like this yet, but they at least considered it and their privacy policies allows it as soon as they decide it's worth it. And you wouldn't necessarily know it. Just because a company's marketing says they respect your privacy doesn't mean they do, especially when their privacy policy says they can. [1]: https://www.numerama.com/magazine/30323-apple-approche-les-mutuelles-pour-divulguer-le-comportement-des-assures.html https://www.numerama.com/magazine/30323-apple-approche-les-m... [2]: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-08-21/wear-this-device-so-the-boss-knows-you-re-losing-weight https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-08-21/wear-this...

sbuk 6y ago
So your first source (from 2014) is based on Withings working with AXA and is also speculation based on your second source, who's reporting it must be pointed out is of an extremely dubious nature (cf. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-hack-how-china-used-a-tiny-chip-to-infiltrate-america-s-top-companies https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-h...) which has been debunked and vehemently refuted by all parties, including the very sources Bloomberg cite in the article. Sorry, no. Did Apple consider it? Possibly, in fact it almost a certainty. More importantly, did the act on it? No. Nothing wrong with exploring options. Let's not engage in slippery-slope hypotheses. > Just because a company's marketing says they respect your privacy doesn't mean they do, especially when their privacy policy says they can. You still haven't shown us where it says they can. I'll take your word for it...
- littlestymaar 6y ago
  > You still haven't shown us where it says they can. I'll take your word for it... Yes I did a few comments above, but no problem I'll repeat it : > (in the the Apple’s Sharing of Personal Data section): > Apple may share personal data with […] Partners. At times, Apple may partner with third parties to provide services or other offerings.
  - sbuk 6y ago
    Apple may share personal data with service providers who act on our behalf, our partners, or others at your direction. Further, Apple does not share personal data with third parties for their own marketing purposes. Service Providers. Apple may engage third parties to act as our service providers and perform certain tasks on our behalf, such as delivering products to customers. Apple service providers are obligated to handle personal data consistent with this Privacy Policy and according to our instructions. They cannot use the personal data we share for their own purposes and must delete or return the personal data once they've fulfilled our request. Partners. At times, Apple may partner with third parties to provide services or other offerings. For example, Apple financial offerings like Apple Card and Apple Cash are offered by Apple and our partners. Apple requires its partners to protect your personal data. Others. Apple may share personal data with others at your direction or with your consent, such as when we share information with your carrier to activate your account. We may also disclose information about you if we determine that for purposes of national security, law enforcement, or other issues of public importance, disclosure is necessary or appropriate. We may also disclose information about you where there is a lawful basis for doing so, if we determine that disclosure is reasonably necessary to enforce our terms and conditions or to protect our operations or users, or in the event of a reorganization, merger, or sale. I think you are clutching at straws, based on shoddy information. The above seems unambiguous to me.
    - littlestymaar 6y ago
      You're right, it is pretty unambiguous: they can share with any partner they like, for any reason other than marketing with the only condition being that the partner “protects personal data”. That's it. No other limits or restrictions. So yes, partnering with a insurance company is allowed by their privacy policies. If you want to have faith that Apple will never do evil things with your data and that their is nothing to worry about, that's up to you. I have plenty of friends who thinks the same about Facebook or Google you know…
      - sbuk 6y ago
        > * littlestymaar 1 day ago [–] Too bad this is only available on a operating system that spies on its users. (Sorry Apple fans, it does and while their marketing tries to hide it as much as possible, their privacy policies don't lie : https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/en-ww/ https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/en-ww/)* You were asked for evidence and failed to provide any. You have now moved the goal posts, first by saying they’ve considered ‘selling’ health data to insurance companies, now it’s they might do it, so therefore they are. Apple aren’t perfect in any way, but what you are asserting is bullshit. To your point on Google and Facebook - it can be demonstrated that they are doing shitty things with peoples data, something you have utterly failed to do in Apples case. As the Romans said, shit or get off the pot.