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I don’t think I could waste money like that. Compare a $100k watch to hiring an electrician for a year. In SK / AB Canada there are a lot of electricians out

I don’t think I could waste money like that. Compare a $100k watch to hiring an electrician for a year. In SK / AB Canada there are a lot of electricians out of work due to downturns in resource sectors, but there’s a lot of work they could be doing. It’s just that the work that could be done would be for poor people and no one is going to pay for it. Owning the wealth gives you the ability to allocate labor and the current wealth owners aren’t doing a good job. Redistribute the wealth IMO.

throw0101a 6y ago
> Compare a $100k watch to hiring an electrician for a year. US$ 100K watches are generally built by hand by a craftsman (usually Swiss or German) and may take more than a year to build: * https://www.alange-soehne.com/en/timepieces/1815-tourbillon/730032f-pink-gold https://www.alange-soehne.com/en/timepieces/1815-tourbillon/... * https://www.chrono24.com/alangesoehne/lange-1-rose-gold-tourbillon-limited-edition--id18269852.htm https://www.chrono24.com/alangesoehne/lange-1-rose-gold-tour... What makes the work of the electricians, carpenters, plumbers, etc, any better or worse than that of a fine machinist? You're not wrong, it's just understand that you are making a value judgement, and not everyone has the same values as you. And here's a Canadian watch maker: * https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/canadian-comeback-kid-one-to-watch https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/canadian-comeback-kid-one-... * https://www.bradleytaylor.ca https://www.bradleytaylor.ca > It’s just that the work that could be done would be for poor people and no one is going to pay for it. Which is why we have taxes and social safety nets (which was added to by CERB).
- donmcronald 6y ago
  > What makes the work of the electricians, carpenters, plumbers, etc, any better or worse than that of a fine machinist? You’re right that it’s a value judgement. A tradesman might be able to fix problems that impact essentials (electricity, water, shelter) for 100 people in a year while a fine machinist makes a single watch for a rich person. I think it’s shameful to be spending resources on frivolous luxury goods when such a huge chunk of society lacks the essentials required for a reasonable standard of living.
  - throw0101a 6y ago
    People are free to spend their own money however they wish. If you think you (or the government/society) can spend their money in a way that is "better" than they themselves can, take it from them (e.g., taxes).
  - caseysoftware 6y ago
    > I think it’s shameful to be spending resources on frivolous luxury goods when such a huge chunk of society lacks the essentials required for a reasonable standard of living. In large swathes of the world, the computer you're typing on, the phone you have, and that ice cream you enjoyed the other night would be considered "frivolous luxury goods." Be careful what you wish for.
- zemvpferreira 6y ago
  I am personally kind-of-ok with the watch purchase you describe. What I'm not ok with is the extra ~100K tacked onto the watch price by the brand going exclusively towards status. My problem with conspicuous consumption isn't the relative utility being bought, it's the values that it signals to waste money for the luxury of wasting it. Making it desirable as a society to set money on fire instead of using it to better your situation is the real damage.
  - Damogran6 6y ago
    You build a widget for a buck...but you can SELL the widget for ten. Are you going to leave $9 on the table?
    - leetcrew 6y ago
      to some extent, it's a "don't hate the player, hate the game" situation. I think it's actually great that we have a system where craftspeople can continue to see returns on developing their skills way past the *good enough" point. what's not so great is when the value of a thing is dominated by the logo on it rather than its design. but it's hard to point to a specific person whose fault this is. if you can 10x something's value by putting your stamp on it, why not? and if you're the watchmaker, why not let them?
    - zemvpferreira 6y ago
      Sometimes I do exactly that, but leaving money on the table is a privilege of wealth and not the point. What I certainly won't do unless my family is starving is buy the widget from someone else for a buck and then use exploitative tactics to convince people to buy it from me for twenty. It's very rarely the craftsman who makes the real margin. That's left to the conglomerate who owns the brand.
      - Damogran6 6y ago
        That’s a logical fallacy, though...the guy that buys a $20M jet is employing the people that made the jet, advertised it, procured the fuel, built and maintained the airport, fabricated the raw materials that went into making it...the ‘rich guy conspicuously spending money on a jet’ is stimulating the economy in different ways.
Damogran6 6y ago
It's an increasing scale with no upper limit. Financially, I don't even register on the chart...but I'm already seeing things like "Do I buy the $600 laptop because it's all I can afford, or the $1299 one because I -Like- it and it won't affect my outcomes any." This, with more yachts.
- leetcrew 6y ago
  a laptop is kinda like a shoe though. my friends that buy the cheapest possible laptop always end up replacing it after a couple years. not for performance, but because it broke and repairing it isn't much cheaper than a new throwaway machine. they think they're saving money, but they're really not. a good business laptop will feel slow 5-8 years later, but there's a much better chance that it still works.
  - Damogran6 6y ago
    That’s not the point. Once you reach a certain level of income, it goes from “how much do I have to spend for the necessity” to “I can spend more than I need to, because I have enough money to not miss the difference.”
    - leetcrew 6y ago
      I guess I'm just nitpicking the example, sorry.

throw0101a 6y ago

> Compare a $100k watch to hiring an electrician for a year. US$ 100K watches are generally built by hand by a craftsman (usually Swiss or German) and may take more than a year to build: * https://www.alange-soehne.com/en/timepieces/1815-tourbillon/730032f-pink-gold https://www.alange-soehne.com/en/timepieces/1815-tourbillon/... * https://www.chrono24.com/alangesoehne/lange-1-rose-gold-tourbillon-limited-edition--id18269852.htm https://www.chrono24.com/alangesoehne/lange-1-rose-gold-tour... What makes the work of the electricians, carpenters, plumbers, etc, any better or worse than that of a fine machinist? You're not wrong, it's just understand that you are making a value judgement, and not everyone has the same values as you. And here's a Canadian watch maker: * https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/canadian-comeback-kid-one-to-watch https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/canadian-comeback-kid-one-... * https://www.bradleytaylor.ca https://www.bradleytaylor.ca > It’s just that the work that could be done would be for poor people and no one is going to pay for it. Which is why we have taxes and social safety nets (which was added to by CERB).

donmcronald 6y ago
> What makes the work of the electricians, carpenters, plumbers, etc, any better or worse than that of a fine machinist? You’re right that it’s a value judgement. A tradesman might be able to fix problems that impact essentials (electricity, water, shelter) for 100 people in a year while a fine machinist makes a single watch for a rich person. I think it’s shameful to be spending resources on frivolous luxury goods when such a huge chunk of society lacks the essentials required for a reasonable standard of living.
- throw0101a 6y ago
  People are free to spend their own money however they wish. If you think you (or the government/society) can spend their money in a way that is "better" than they themselves can, take it from them (e.g., taxes).
- caseysoftware 6y ago
  > I think it’s shameful to be spending resources on frivolous luxury goods when such a huge chunk of society lacks the essentials required for a reasonable standard of living. In large swathes of the world, the computer you're typing on, the phone you have, and that ice cream you enjoyed the other night would be considered "frivolous luxury goods." Be careful what you wish for.
zemvpferreira 6y ago
I am personally kind-of-ok with the watch purchase you describe. What I'm not ok with is the extra ~100K tacked onto the watch price by the brand going exclusively towards status. My problem with conspicuous consumption isn't the relative utility being bought, it's the values that it signals to waste money for the luxury of wasting it. Making it desirable as a society to set money on fire instead of using it to better your situation is the real damage.
- Damogran6 6y ago
  You build a widget for a buck...but you can SELL the widget for ten. Are you going to leave $9 on the table?
  - leetcrew 6y ago
    to some extent, it's a "don't hate the player, hate the game" situation. I think it's actually great that we have a system where craftspeople can continue to see returns on developing their skills way past the *good enough" point. what's not so great is when the value of a thing is dominated by the logo on it rather than its design. but it's hard to point to a specific person whose fault this is. if you can 10x something's value by putting your stamp on it, why not? and if you're the watchmaker, why not let them?
  - zemvpferreira 6y ago
    Sometimes I do exactly that, but leaving money on the table is a privilege of wealth and not the point. What I certainly won't do unless my family is starving is buy the widget from someone else for a buck and then use exploitative tactics to convince people to buy it from me for twenty. It's very rarely the craftsman who makes the real margin. That's left to the conglomerate who owns the brand.
    - Damogran6 6y ago
      That’s a logical fallacy, though...the guy that buys a $20M jet is employing the people that made the jet, advertised it, procured the fuel, built and maintained the airport, fabricated the raw materials that went into making it...the ‘rich guy conspicuously spending money on a jet’ is stimulating the economy in different ways.

Damogran6 6y ago

It's an increasing scale with no upper limit. Financially, I don't even register on the chart...but I'm already seeing things like "Do I buy the $600 laptop because it's all I can afford, or the $1299 one because I -Like- it and it won't affect my outcomes any." This, with more yachts.

leetcrew 6y ago
a laptop is kinda like a shoe though. my friends that buy the cheapest possible laptop always end up replacing it after a couple years. not for performance, but because it broke and repairing it isn't much cheaper than a new throwaway machine. they think they're saving money, but they're really not. a good business laptop will feel slow 5-8 years later, but there's a much better chance that it still works.
- Damogran6 6y ago
  That’s not the point. Once you reach a certain level of income, it goes from “how much do I have to spend for the necessity” to “I can spend more than I need to, because I have enough money to not miss the difference.”
  - leetcrew 6y ago
    I guess I'm just nitpicking the example, sorry.