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The difference, of course, is that if I message someone about an iPhone in messages.app, I'm not inundated with "targeted" ads for phones everywhere I go. Or, i

by sbuk 6y ago

The difference, of course, is that if I message someone about an iPhone in messages.app, I'm not inundated with "targeted" ads for phones everywhere I go. Or, if I'm talking to someone about a recipe, my devices don't suddenly start displaying recipes (looking at you, Echo). Anonymized analytics, the type that Apple are informing you about in that document, are fine. Searching the App Store for a productivity app and being shown a single ad for a productivity app at the top of the search results is fine. What you are doing is trying to convince the world that the Emperor is naked, when in fact they merely have their top shirt button undone.

littlestymaar 6y ago
Displaying real-time targeted ads (1) isn't Apple Business for sure. Selling you health data to health insurance companies (2) fits their strategy much more, and by accepting their privacy policy, you allowed them to do it. I don't consider (2) less harmful than (1).
- sbuk 6y ago
  Got any evidence, tangible or otherwise, of (2)?
  - littlestymaar 6y ago
    In French[1] (2014) linking to a Bloomberg link behind a paywall[2]. There's no evidence that they have done anything like this yet, but they at least considered it and their privacy policies allows it as soon as they decide it's worth it. And you wouldn't necessarily know it. Just because a company's marketing says they respect your privacy doesn't mean they do, especially when their privacy policy says they can. [1]: https://www.numerama.com/magazine/30323-apple-approche-les-mutuelles-pour-divulguer-le-comportement-des-assures.html https://www.numerama.com/magazine/30323-apple-approche-les-m... [2]: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-08-21/wear-this-device-so-the-boss-knows-you-re-losing-weight https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-08-21/wear-this...
    - sbuk 6y ago
      So your first source (from 2014) is based on Withings working with AXA and is also speculation based on your second source, who's reporting it must be pointed out is of an extremely dubious nature (cf. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-hack-how-china-used-a-tiny-chip-to-infiltrate-america-s-top-companies https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-h...) which has been debunked and vehemently refuted by all parties, including the very sources Bloomberg cite in the article. Sorry, no. Did Apple consider it? Possibly, in fact it almost a certainty. More importantly, did the act on it? No. Nothing wrong with exploring options. Let's not engage in slippery-slope hypotheses. > Just because a company's marketing says they respect your privacy doesn't mean they do, especially when their privacy policy says they can. You still haven't shown us where it says they can. I'll take your word for it...
      - littlestymaar 6y ago
        > You still haven't shown us where it says they can. I'll take your word for it... Yes I did a few comments above, but no problem I'll repeat it : > (in the the Apple’s Sharing of Personal Data section): > Apple may share personal data with […] Partners. At times, Apple may partner with third parties to provide services or other offerings.
        sbuk 6y ago
        Apple may share personal data with service providers who act on our behalf, our partners, or others at your direction. Further, Apple does not share personal data with third parties for their own marketing purposes. Service Providers. Apple may engage third parties to act as our service providers and perform certain tasks on our behalf, such as delivering products to customers. Apple service providers are obligated to handle personal data consistent with this Privacy Policy and according to our instructions. They cannot use the personal data we share for their own purposes and must delete or return the personal data once they've fulfilled our request. Partners. At times, Apple may partner with third parties to provide services or other offerings. For example, Apple financial offerings like Apple Card and Apple Cash are offered by Apple and our partners. Apple requires its partners to protect your personal data. Others. Apple may share personal data with others at your direction or with your consent, such as when we share information with your carrier to activate your account. We may also disclose information about you if we determine that for purposes of national security, law enforcement, or other issues of public importance, disclosure is necessary or appropriate. We may also disclose information about you where there is a lawful basis for doing so, if we determine that disclosure is reasonably necessary to enforce our terms and conditions or to protect our operations or users, or in the event of a reorganization, merger, or sale. I think you are clutching at straws, based on shoddy information. The above seems unambiguous to me.

by sbuk 6y ago

littlestymaar 6y ago

Displaying real-time targeted ads (1) isn't Apple Business for sure. Selling you health data to health insurance companies (2) fits their strategy much more, and by accepting their privacy policy, you allowed them to do it. I don't consider (2) less harmful than (1).

sbuk 6y ago
Got any evidence, tangible or otherwise, of (2)?
- littlestymaar 6y ago
  In French[1] (2014) linking to a Bloomberg link behind a paywall[2]. There's no evidence that they have done anything like this yet, but they at least considered it and their privacy policies allows it as soon as they decide it's worth it. And you wouldn't necessarily know it. Just because a company's marketing says they respect your privacy doesn't mean they do, especially when their privacy policy says they can. [1]: https://www.numerama.com/magazine/30323-apple-approche-les-mutuelles-pour-divulguer-le-comportement-des-assures.html https://www.numerama.com/magazine/30323-apple-approche-les-m... [2]: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-08-21/wear-this-device-so-the-boss-knows-you-re-losing-weight https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-08-21/wear-this...
  - sbuk 6y ago
    So your first source (from 2014) is based on Withings working with AXA and is also speculation based on your second source, who's reporting it must be pointed out is of an extremely dubious nature (cf. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-hack-how-china-used-a-tiny-chip-to-infiltrate-america-s-top-companies https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-h...) which has been debunked and vehemently refuted by all parties, including the very sources Bloomberg cite in the article. Sorry, no. Did Apple consider it? Possibly, in fact it almost a certainty. More importantly, did the act on it? No. Nothing wrong with exploring options. Let's not engage in slippery-slope hypotheses. > Just because a company's marketing says they respect your privacy doesn't mean they do, especially when their privacy policy says they can. You still haven't shown us where it says they can. I'll take your word for it...
    - littlestymaar 6y ago
      > You still haven't shown us where it says they can. I'll take your word for it... Yes I did a few comments above, but no problem I'll repeat it : > (in the the Apple’s Sharing of Personal Data section): > Apple may share personal data with […] Partners. At times, Apple may partner with third parties to provide services or other offerings.
      - sbuk 6y ago
        Apple may share personal data with service providers who act on our behalf, our partners, or others at your direction. Further, Apple does not share personal data with third parties for their own marketing purposes. Service Providers. Apple may engage third parties to act as our service providers and perform certain tasks on our behalf, such as delivering products to customers. Apple service providers are obligated to handle personal data consistent with this Privacy Policy and according to our instructions. They cannot use the personal data we share for their own purposes and must delete or return the personal data once they've fulfilled our request. Partners. At times, Apple may partner with third parties to provide services or other offerings. For example, Apple financial offerings like Apple Card and Apple Cash are offered by Apple and our partners. Apple requires its partners to protect your personal data. Others. Apple may share personal data with others at your direction or with your consent, such as when we share information with your carrier to activate your account. We may also disclose information about you if we determine that for purposes of national security, law enforcement, or other issues of public importance, disclosure is necessary or appropriate. We may also disclose information about you where there is a lawful basis for doing so, if we determine that disclosure is reasonably necessary to enforce our terms and conditions or to protect our operations or users, or in the event of a reorganization, merger, or sale. I think you are clutching at straws, based on shoddy information. The above seems unambiguous to me.