6 ms·

> the world has reached a point where it is broadly understood that written erotica is freedom of speech and trying to ban it or make it stop is pointless. Unf

by buisi 6y ago

> the world has reached a point where it is broadly understood that written erotica is freedom of speech and trying to ban it or make it stop is pointless. Unfortunately, this isn't entirely true, even today. https://www.vice.com/en/article/3a8nv3/canadian-author-charged-with-child-porn-over-hansel-and-gretel-retelling https://www.vice.com/en/article/3a8nv3/canadian-author-charg... This is the most famous recent one. https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/man-convicted-multiple-obscenity-crimes-involving-children https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/man-convicted-multiple-obscen... There is also a Texas Man, by the name of Thomas Arthur, who hosted far more disturbing things on his website who got convicted of obscenity. He appears to have been trafficking in obscene drawings, however the text material is listed as charges as well.

nanoscopic 6y ago
Alright. This is a fair point. I go way out of my way to discourage underage visitors to the erotica website I run, and I do agree that there is tremendous sensitivity in the current era towards the notion of anything sexual involving children. Despite that, I don't think such sensitivity is unreasonable. I do believe that children are sexual from quite an early age, and that that should be accepted and encouraged from a sexual wellness perspective, but simultaneously I think children are abused very frequently even in this era and we should continue to do everything we can to protect them from abuse. I still see plenty of "stories of my childhood" on erotica websites, and I don't see anyone going out of their way to shut them down. Example: solotouch ( not my website, but a common example with many such stories ) Another legal example that comes to mind is the man who was convicted for importing obscene hentai manga. I personally believe hentai should be considered free speech but that is certainly not the case in the legal arena right now. My point remains that I believe the world is very accepting of many types of erotica that I had previously thought would be highly frowned upon. I will point out that under the miller test ( the main law concerning this in the US ), textual material that is artistically meaningful as writing does not constitute illegal writing. I myself shy away from writing any erotica describing explicit sexual activity of minors, but I still believe it to be legal if written well enough... I does though fail 2 of the 3 prongs on the miller test: 1. The average person would agree that description of explicit child sexual activity is illegal. ( fiction wise at least; I think accounts of childhood activity may be deemed acceptable by many normal folk ) 2. Description of child sexual activity is patently offensive. In the case of Lolita, for the most part, the book isn't terribly explicit in nature. It also ensures its legality by being an instance of well written fiction. Other applicable law is "activity contributing to the delinquency of minors". So, it isn't unreasonable for something that is otherwise legal to be illegal ( for good reason ) if it is used to encourage minors to engage in sexual activity ( with adults or for the entertainment of adults ) Essentially, the world is very accepting of erotica in many forms. The world simultaneously has many laws to attempt to protect children while maintaining the general acceptance.
- Duennepaper 6y ago
  "I do believe that children are sexual from quite an early age, and that that should be accepted and encouraged from a sexual wellness perspective." wtf?
  - deleted 6y ago
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  - jowsie 6y ago
    Did you never have a sexual feeling before you reached the age of consent?
    - nainarb 6y ago
      I did
    - Duennepaper 6y ago
      I did, i hadn't had the feeling to mention this in this wording on a forum like this. Something like this goes very quickly in direction of pedophiles.
  - devwastaken 6y ago
    What's wtf about it? It's biologically accurate. What they mean is you shouldn't tell a teen that sex is bad and evil and their instincts for sexual contact are not bad and evil.
    - buisi 6y ago
      I agree with your points, but the wording in the post is very vague. If they mean teens, they should say teens directly, rather than using the word "children" which is easy to misunderstand.
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rsynnott 6y ago
The Canadian one wasn’t convicted; the law was effectively ruled partially unconstitutional: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/yvan-godbout-acquitted-1.5741240 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/yvan-godbout-acquitt... That is, arguably, the system working. Unfortunately, when things go to court, the system working often involves people getting hurt.
- buisi 6y ago
  From what I know, it is getting appealed to a higher court, so yes and no. The verdict will be in sooner or later, and at that point, we will know. But, I'll also argue that this never should have gotten to a trial, it is appalling that the police think this is something someone should get charged for to begin with. The other case is also going up for appeal, from what I've read, although I don't know how the higher court will respond to it.
deleted 6y ago
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by buisi 6y ago

nanoscopic 6y ago

Alright. This is a fair point. I go way out of my way to discourage underage visitors to the erotica website I run, and I do agree that there is tremendous sensitivity in the current era towards the notion of anything sexual involving children. Despite that, I don't think such sensitivity is unreasonable. I do believe that children are sexual from quite an early age, and that that should be accepted and encouraged from a sexual wellness perspective, but simultaneously I think children are abused very frequently even in this era and we should continue to do everything we can to protect them from abuse. I still see plenty of "stories of my childhood" on erotica websites, and I don't see anyone going out of their way to shut them down. Example: solotouch ( not my website, but a common example with many such stories ) Another legal example that comes to mind is the man who was convicted for importing obscene hentai manga. I personally believe hentai should be considered free speech but that is certainly not the case in the legal arena right now. My point remains that I believe the world is very accepting of many types of erotica that I had previously thought would be highly frowned upon. I will point out that under the miller test ( the main law concerning this in the US ), textual material that is artistically meaningful as writing does not constitute illegal writing. I myself shy away from writing any erotica describing explicit sexual activity of minors, but I still believe it to be legal if written well enough... I does though fail 2 of the 3 prongs on the miller test: 1. The average person would agree that description of explicit child sexual activity is illegal. ( fiction wise at least; I think accounts of childhood activity may be deemed acceptable by many normal folk ) 2. Description of child sexual activity is patently offensive. In the case of Lolita, for the most part, the book isn't terribly explicit in nature. It also ensures its legality by being an instance of well written fiction. Other applicable law is "activity contributing to the delinquency of minors". So, it isn't unreasonable for something that is otherwise legal to be illegal ( for good reason ) if it is used to encourage minors to engage in sexual activity ( with adults or for the entertainment of adults ) Essentially, the world is very accepting of erotica in many forms. The world simultaneously has many laws to attempt to protect children while maintaining the general acceptance.

Duennepaper 6y ago
"I do believe that children are sexual from quite an early age, and that that should be accepted and encouraged from a sexual wellness perspective." wtf?
- deleted 6y ago
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- jowsie 6y ago
  Did you never have a sexual feeling before you reached the age of consent?
  - nainarb 6y ago
    I did
  - Duennepaper 6y ago
    I did, i hadn't had the feeling to mention this in this wording on a forum like this. Something like this goes very quickly in direction of pedophiles.
- devwastaken 6y ago
  What's wtf about it? It's biologically accurate. What they mean is you shouldn't tell a teen that sex is bad and evil and their instincts for sexual contact are not bad and evil.
  - buisi 6y ago
    I agree with your points, but the wording in the post is very vague. If they mean teens, they should say teens directly, rather than using the word "children" which is easy to misunderstand.
- deleted 6y ago

rsynnott 6y ago

The Canadian one wasn’t convicted; the law was effectively ruled partially unconstitutional: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/yvan-godbout-acquitted-1.5741240 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/yvan-godbout-acquitt... That is, arguably, the system working. Unfortunately, when things go to court, the system working often involves people getting hurt.

buisi 6y ago
From what I know, it is getting appealed to a higher court, so yes and no. The verdict will be in sooner or later, and at that point, we will know. But, I'll also argue that this never should have gotten to a trial, it is appalling that the police think this is something someone should get charged for to begin with. The other case is also going up for appeal, from what I've read, although I don't know how the higher court will respond to it.

deleted 6y ago

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