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The actual article title is "How Would the Publishing World Respond to Lolita Today?" The title here is a small bit from the article. Unless the submitter here

• buisi 6y ago
  > the world has reached a point where it is broadly understood that written erotica is freedom of speech and trying to ban it or make it stop is pointless. Unfortunately, this isn't entirely true, even today. https://www.vice.com/en/article/3a8nv3/canadian-author-charged-with-child-porn-over-hansel-and-gretel-retelling https://www.vice.com/en/article/3a8nv3/canadian-author-charg... This is the most famous recent one. https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/man-convicted-multiple-obscenity-crimes-involving-children https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/man-convicted-multiple-obscen... There is also a Texas Man, by the name of Thomas Arthur, who hosted far more disturbing things on his website who got convicted of obscenity. He appears to have been trafficking in obscene drawings, however the text material is listed as charges as well.
  • nanoscopic 6y ago
    Alright. This is a fair point. I go way out of my way to discourage underage visitors to the erotica website I run, and I do agree that there is tremendous sensitivity in the current era towards the notion of anything sexual involving children. Despite that, I don't think such sensitivity is unreasonable. I do believe that children are sexual from quite an early age, and that that should be accepted and encouraged from a sexual wellness perspective, but simultaneously I think children are abused very frequently even in this era and we should continue to do everything we can to protect them from abuse. I still see plenty of "stories of my childhood" on erotica websites, and I don't see anyone going out of their way to shut them down. Example: solotouch ( not my website, but a common example with many such stories ) Another legal example that comes to mind is the man who was convicted for importing obscene hentai manga. I personally believe hentai should be considered free speech but that is certainly not the case in the legal arena right now. My point remains that I believe the world is very accepting of many types of erotica that I had previously thought would be highly frowned upon. I will point out that under the miller test ( the main law concerning this in the US ), textual material that is artistically meaningful as writing does not constitute illegal writing. I myself shy away from writing any erotica describing explicit sexual activity of minors, but I still believe it to be legal if written well enough... I does though fail 2 of the 3 prongs on the miller test: 1. The average person would agree that description of explicit child sexual activity is illegal. ( fiction wise at least; I think accounts of childhood activity may be deemed acceptable by many normal folk ) 2. Description of child sexual activity is patently offensive. In the case of Lolita, for the most part, the book isn't terribly explicit in nature. It also ensures its legality by being an instance of well written fiction. Other applicable law is "activity contributing to the delinquency of minors". So, it isn't unreasonable for something that is otherwise legal to be illegal ( for good reason ) if it is used to encourage minors to engage in sexual activity ( with adults or for the entertainment of adults ) Essentially, the world is very accepting of erotica in many forms. The world simultaneously has many laws to attempt to protect children while maintaining the general acceptance.
    • Duennepaper 6y ago
      "I do believe that children are sexual from quite an early age, and that that should be accepted and encouraged from a sexual wellness perspective." wtf?
      • deleted 6y ago
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      • deleted 6y ago
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      • jowsie 6y ago
        Did you never have a sexual feeling before you reached the age of consent?
        • nainarb 6y ago
          I did
        • Duennepaper 6y ago
          I did, i hadn't had the feeling to mention this in this wording on a forum like this. Something like this goes very quickly in direction of pedophiles.
      • devwastaken 6y ago
        What's wtf about it? It's biologically accurate. What they mean is you shouldn't tell a teen that sex is bad and evil and their instincts for sexual contact are not bad and evil.
        • buisi 6y ago
          I agree with your points, but the wording in the post is very vague. If they mean teens, they should say teens directly, rather than using the word "children" which is easy to misunderstand.
      • deleted 6y ago
  • rsynnott 6y ago
    The Canadian one wasn’t convicted; the law was effectively ruled partially unconstitutional: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/yvan-godbout-acquitted-1.5741240 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/yvan-godbout-acquitt... That is, arguably, the system working. Unfortunately, when things go to court, the system working often involves people getting hurt.
    • buisi 6y ago
      From what I know, it is getting appealed to a higher court, so yes and no. The verdict will be in sooner or later, and at that point, we will know. But, I'll also argue that this never should have gotten to a trial, it is appalling that the police think this is something someone should get charged for to begin with. The other case is also going up for appeal, from what I've read, although I don't know how the higher court will respond to it.
  • deleted 6y ago
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• orhmeh09 6y ago
  It’s a little awkward to comment on moderation but I want to say I’m glad to see this comment visible again after it was marked dead, because it is an interesting contribution and there’s no reason to snuff it out.
  • minitech 6y ago
    That was because of the user’s shadowban, not votes.
  • input_sh 6y ago
    [dead] is a comment from a shadowbanned user, [flagged] is... well, flagged comments. Vouch gets rids of it if other people find it unnecessary.
• Duennepaper 6y ago
  You might sound like someone who doesn't understand 'freedom of speech'. This does not allow you to do whatever you want. In germany for example it is written like this: "These rights shall find their limits in the provisions of general laws, in provisions for the protection of young persons, and in the right to personal honour." And its not different in the USA, you have limitations as well as the general good is more important than your personal. "The world is all too fond of sexuality, and especially with controversial sexuality." And what distrubs me the most on your comment: Just because their are pedophiles, doesn't make pedophiles okay. Yes i used here the extrem form of 'controversial sexuality' but to be clear: you should know your boundaries in comparison to the normal society. Just because you are part of that sub group of people, in my circles 'controversial sexuality' is not typical at all. You have a responsibility and just because you can and some other are having the same moral compass as you have, doesn't make your niche okay on a moral/society point of view. And it could be that your 'controversial sexuality' is actually okay but how you express yourself, it feels already that you crossed a line i wouldn't.
  • throwaway4115 6y ago
    > [Freedom of speech] rights shall find their limits in the provisions of general laws, in provisions for the protection of young persons, and in the right to personal honour. You seem to imply that controversial written erotica shouldn’t be covered by freedom of speech protections, as it would be in the name of protecting children. Do you think censoring it would reduce the incidence of child abuse? If so, would banning videogames like GTA reduce the incidence of shootings or traffic rule violations? > in my circles 'controversial sexuality' is not typical at all It seems like the author of the comment you’re replying to might be in a unique position to gauge what controversial sexuality might be of interest to your circles even if yourself aren’t privy to it due to its controversial nature.
    • Duennepaper 6y ago
      No, my argument is, that 'freedom of speech' doesn't allow everything as the author indicates. Thats not even something i have an opinion on, the law already defines that and i highly suspect that it falls under usa laws as it does for germany. Like laws going in direction of 'proection of minors'. I'm not sure if you are allowed to just put a website online which is advocating for pedophility (lets keep the extreme to simplify). But here is where youth laws require you to make sure kids can't access it. Same goes for GTA, you also have youth laws protecting them. The author is probably part of a subcultural group of people in their own bubble. I highly doubt that his experience is in any way ever statistically relevant enough and reaches any majority at all. And just to clarify one thing: i don't care about known fetishes or weird erotica. Let people read and write what they want but its easy to cross lines in fiction you wouldn't dare in real life but starting to getting used to the thoughts, images and ideas. How do you think would freely advocate that kids should express their sexuality as it is just 'normal'? Kids which are just playing and learning and perhaps lern to touch themselves as a normal growing up process or adults sexualising those kids? No kid needs an adult supporter to learn how to masturbate and there are 1000x more important things for people to learn like taxes before they should learn how to have a very diverse sex live in their adult life. Don't get me wrong, we do put a lot of stigma on it as a society but its probably better to advocate to the adults and not to minors at all. Clear line.
• grey-area 6y ago
  Lolita is not erotica
• hctaw 6y ago
  Lolita isn't erotica, which puts this in a different context. This is like comparing BDSM pornography to rape scenes in film. The latter is going to have a different audience and intent and might be more controversial to ratings agencies and production companies.