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Have those users download some simple app if this is so important to them. Or let them enter their phone number to get more reliable text notifications. Just be

Have those users download some simple app if this is so important to them. Or let them enter their phone number to get more reliable text notifications. Just because you have a good use doesn’t outweigh the all the bad abuse.

cforrester 6y ago
> Just because you have a good use doesn’t outweigh the all the bad abuse. Personally, this is how I feel about downloading apps to my phone for every individual service and product. I see no need to download a separate app for each individual service I'm interested in, as the potential for abuse is higher than getting the occasional notification from my browser app and visiting their website. However, it sounds to me like the focus should be on minimizing the potential for any avenue of information delivery to be abused, not to remove or decline to add features for fear that they will be. From the user side, I'm not interested in being told by a developer, "download my app if it's so important to you." I'd probably never discover how useful a service can be if I would have to download another app to try it. From the developer side, I'm not interested in telling potential users, "you actually don't want that feature."
- Google234 6y ago
  99% of apps you download aren’t spam unlike the 99% of web notification requests that are spanmy
  - cforrester 6y ago
    I don't find that very convincing at all. 99% of apps I've ever used add no value beyond what a web interface could do, and most of those send me spammy notifications trying to draw me back into the app. App notification spam is a much greater problem for me and everyone I know than web notification spam, and apps pose a greater privacy and security threat.
  - pmontra 6y ago
    I agree, because I've become picky about what I install. I tend to use only open source apps, especially from F-Droid. However I routinely deny notification requests in Firefox so this is not a problem. I also routinely deny the permission to use canvas image data. Firefox warns it can be used to fingerprint browsers https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/firefox-protection-against-fingerprinting https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/firefox-protection-agai... Sadly Apple does its best to make more money. If they allow other browser engines they'd end up selling less apps. IMHO they'll care about privacy only until it positively correlates with making money. If it will ever cost them more than it gains, they'll find a way to weaken privacy without losing face. An example, Apple ruthlessly enforcing in app payments for small companies but bowing to Netflix, Amazon and the like. They know they would sell less phones if those apps won't run on iOS. And that's expected. Why would a company care about you and me in this age? No more than what you and me would care about ants.
  - zambal 6y ago
    In my experience the usage of notifications in native apps is hardly less spammy than web notifications.
    - kyriakos 6y ago
      Instagram, Facebook, Twitter are the biggest offenders here. Its worse cause for these apps if you allow them the send notifications permissions you are automatically opting-in for everything and you need to use their UI to granularly remove the ones you don't want.
  - kyriakos 6y ago
    Then 99% of the websites you visit are spammers, that's a different problem. Removing this feature from all users though is not a good solution either. Chrome allows you to block notifications from all sites so you don't have to dismiss requests anymore which seems like it would suit your needs and at the same time allow others to use this feature.
endless1234 6y ago
>Have those users download some simple app The whole discussion is about it being unnecessary resource use to develop said "simple app" due to Apple's restrictions on mobile Safari..
- fragile_frogs 6y ago
  And not everyone has the resources to build a "simple app" just for iOS.
kyriakos 6y ago
How is this abused when you have to opt in to get the notifications? If you opt out once the site cannot request it again.
heavyset_go 6y ago
This is, unfortunately, the route we're going, and was addressed in the OP: > Despite the web app working perfectly on Android and across Windows, Linux and macOS without native integration, we now must dedicate time and resources to develop an additional iOS app just so iOS users, which over half of Americans are, aren't left out. > This is an expensive endeavor time-wise and money-wise, during a pandemic where time is of the essence and resources are stretched thin. It shouldn't be this way, but it is. The end result is that, right now, some sick patients are punished for their wrong choice of phone or tablet because the native app doesn't exist yet, while others don't have a problem.

cforrester 6y ago

> Just because you have a good use doesn’t outweigh the all the bad abuse. Personally, this is how I feel about downloading apps to my phone for every individual service and product. I see no need to download a separate app for each individual service I'm interested in, as the potential for abuse is higher than getting the occasional notification from my browser app and visiting their website. However, it sounds to me like the focus should be on minimizing the potential for any avenue of information delivery to be abused, not to remove or decline to add features for fear that they will be. From the user side, I'm not interested in being told by a developer, "download my app if it's so important to you." I'd probably never discover how useful a service can be if I would have to download another app to try it. From the developer side, I'm not interested in telling potential users, "you actually don't want that feature."

Google234 6y ago
99% of apps you download aren’t spam unlike the 99% of web notification requests that are spanmy
- cforrester 6y ago
  I don't find that very convincing at all. 99% of apps I've ever used add no value beyond what a web interface could do, and most of those send me spammy notifications trying to draw me back into the app. App notification spam is a much greater problem for me and everyone I know than web notification spam, and apps pose a greater privacy and security threat.
- pmontra 6y ago
  I agree, because I've become picky about what I install. I tend to use only open source apps, especially from F-Droid. However I routinely deny notification requests in Firefox so this is not a problem. I also routinely deny the permission to use canvas image data. Firefox warns it can be used to fingerprint browsers https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/firefox-protection-against-fingerprinting https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/firefox-protection-agai... Sadly Apple does its best to make more money. If they allow other browser engines they'd end up selling less apps. IMHO they'll care about privacy only until it positively correlates with making money. If it will ever cost them more than it gains, they'll find a way to weaken privacy without losing face. An example, Apple ruthlessly enforcing in app payments for small companies but bowing to Netflix, Amazon and the like. They know they would sell less phones if those apps won't run on iOS. And that's expected. Why would a company care about you and me in this age? No more than what you and me would care about ants.
- zambal 6y ago
  In my experience the usage of notifications in native apps is hardly less spammy than web notifications.
  - kyriakos 6y ago
    Instagram, Facebook, Twitter are the biggest offenders here. Its worse cause for these apps if you allow them the send notifications permissions you are automatically opting-in for everything and you need to use their UI to granularly remove the ones you don't want.
- kyriakos 6y ago
  Then 99% of the websites you visit are spammers, that's a different problem. Removing this feature from all users though is not a good solution either. Chrome allows you to block notifications from all sites so you don't have to dismiss requests anymore which seems like it would suit your needs and at the same time allow others to use this feature.

endless1234 6y ago

>Have those users download some simple app The whole discussion is about it being unnecessary resource use to develop said "simple app" due to Apple's restrictions on mobile Safari..

fragile_frogs 6y ago
And not everyone has the resources to build a "simple app" just for iOS.

kyriakos 6y ago

How is this abused when you have to opt in to get the notifications? If you opt out once the site cannot request it again.

heavyset_go 6y ago

This is, unfortunately, the route we're going, and was addressed in the OP: > Despite the web app working perfectly on Android and across Windows, Linux and macOS without native integration, we now must dedicate time and resources to develop an additional iOS app just so iOS users, which over half of Americans are, aren't left out. > This is an expensive endeavor time-wise and money-wise, during a pandemic where time is of the essence and resources are stretched thin. It shouldn't be this way, but it is. The end result is that, right now, some sick patients are punished for their wrong choice of phone or tablet because the native app doesn't exist yet, while others don't have a problem.