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Did I accidentally disable this or something? I’ve never seen it. Everyone acts like 1. For some reason it has to be some sort of pop up, it could easily be a

Did I accidentally disable this or something? I’ve never seen it. Everyone acts like 1. For some reason it has to be some sort of pop up, it could easily be a small icon in your bar 2. Apple couldn’t/wouldn’t design this so that it was unobtrusive 3. If the way they did design it was still too annoying, they wouldn’t make it less so, or make it easy to turn off Why do so many on HN argue from “if it existed it would obviously be in form X that already exists and therefore be bad and therefore I never want it and will oppose it vehemently” it’s a total lack of capability of even the most incremental innovative thinking.

ArchOversight 6y ago
> 1. For some reason it has to be some sort of pop up, it could easily be a small icon in your bar It is a popup right now... it is in your face and requires immediate action. An example: https://imgur.com/a/GfqUuAZ https://imgur.com/a/GfqUuAZ Using: https://www.bennish.net/web-notifications.html https://www.bennish.net/web-notifications.html > 2. Apple couldn’t/wouldn’t design this so that it was unobtrusive It is obtrusive in that it is a full-window popover and you can't go to any other tabs until you have completed the action. > 3. If the way they did design it was still too annoying, they wouldn’t make it less so, or make it easy to turn off You can currently disable it browser wide in Preferences -> Websites => "Allow websites to ask permission to send notifications". However, that doesn't stop various websites from displaying their own JavaScript based popups and requests before even attempting to use the Web Push Notifications API to see if the user wants to grant access using the native API's. This way they can nag the user over and over to enable notifications whereas if you deny it once in the browser you need to take a bunch of manual steps to remove the website and grant them access.
- kaoD 6y ago
  Wow, now I understand the sentiment... but that's a reason to stop using Safari, not against notifications.
- heavyset_go 6y ago
  Safari does not use the Web Push or Notification API, Apple has a bespoke Safari Push Notifications[1] API on macOS, so this poor implementation is completely on Apple. On Firefox, it just puts a little message window icon in your address bar if you didn't trigger the Notifications API permission via a control on the website. When you do trigger the permissions through user interaction, and unobstructive widget shows up[2] that can be promptly hidden without ever actually interacting with it, unlike in your Safari example. [1] https://developer.apple.com/notifications/safari-push-notifications/ https://developer.apple.com/notifications/safari-push-notifi... [2] https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/push-notifications-firefox https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/push-notifications-fire...
yunohn 6y ago
>> it’s a total lack of capability of even the most incremental innovative thinking Honestly, HN is a cargo cult of native only, anti web app sentiment. It’s frustrating.
- sbuk 6y ago
  Or... Your opinion isn’t held by other people, some of whom disagree with your opinion and are expressing that.
  - nwienert 6y ago
    HN has many cargo cults not reflected by broader tech. It certainly has a crowd.
  - luckylion 6y ago
    > Your opinion isn’t held by other people, some of whom disagree with your opinion and are expressing that. The other opinion seems "notifications cannot be disabled, therefore notifications are bad". If you don't want to see notification requests, you never will. Granted: you need to be able to change settings, in a very restricted environment or with a custom clone of some browser you might not be able to. For most users, that's not a problem. I'm one of them. I don't see notification requests on my desktop or phone. Neither do I see requests for geo-location, even though the browser is fundamentally capable of providing my geo-location to websites through an API; I've disabled it.
    - sbuk 6y ago
      I didn’t express an opinion either way. But it’s clear to me that there are some amongst us that believe that a difference of opinion must mean everyone who disagrees must therefore be in a cargo cult. That is what I am taking issue with. It’s also against the guidelines here.
      - luckylion 6y ago
        I'm still struggling to find out the non-cult reason for "the feature must be banned from the browser, just being able to disable it for all time with a single click is not enough".

ArchOversight 6y ago

> 1. For some reason it has to be some sort of pop up, it could easily be a small icon in your bar It is a popup right now... it is in your face and requires immediate action. An example: https://imgur.com/a/GfqUuAZ https://imgur.com/a/GfqUuAZ Using: https://www.bennish.net/web-notifications.html https://www.bennish.net/web-notifications.html > 2. Apple couldn’t/wouldn’t design this so that it was unobtrusive It is obtrusive in that it is a full-window popover and you can't go to any other tabs until you have completed the action. > 3. If the way they did design it was still too annoying, they wouldn’t make it less so, or make it easy to turn off You can currently disable it browser wide in Preferences -> Websites => "Allow websites to ask permission to send notifications". However, that doesn't stop various websites from displaying their own JavaScript based popups and requests before even attempting to use the Web Push Notifications API to see if the user wants to grant access using the native API's. This way they can nag the user over and over to enable notifications whereas if you deny it once in the browser you need to take a bunch of manual steps to remove the website and grant them access.

kaoD 6y ago
Wow, now I understand the sentiment... but that's a reason to stop using Safari, not against notifications.
heavyset_go 6y ago
Safari does not use the Web Push or Notification API, Apple has a bespoke Safari Push Notifications[1] API on macOS, so this poor implementation is completely on Apple. On Firefox, it just puts a little message window icon in your address bar if you didn't trigger the Notifications API permission via a control on the website. When you do trigger the permissions through user interaction, and unobstructive widget shows up[2] that can be promptly hidden without ever actually interacting with it, unlike in your Safari example. [1] https://developer.apple.com/notifications/safari-push-notifications/ https://developer.apple.com/notifications/safari-push-notifi... [2] https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/push-notifications-firefox https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/push-notifications-fire...

yunohn 6y ago

>> it’s a total lack of capability of even the most incremental innovative thinking Honestly, HN is a cargo cult of native only, anti web app sentiment. It’s frustrating.

sbuk 6y ago
Or... Your opinion isn’t held by other people, some of whom disagree with your opinion and are expressing that.
- nwienert 6y ago
  HN has many cargo cults not reflected by broader tech. It certainly has a crowd.
- luckylion 6y ago
  > Your opinion isn’t held by other people, some of whom disagree with your opinion and are expressing that. The other opinion seems "notifications cannot be disabled, therefore notifications are bad". If you don't want to see notification requests, you never will. Granted: you need to be able to change settings, in a very restricted environment or with a custom clone of some browser you might not be able to. For most users, that's not a problem. I'm one of them. I don't see notification requests on my desktop or phone. Neither do I see requests for geo-location, even though the browser is fundamentally capable of providing my geo-location to websites through an API; I've disabled it.
  - sbuk 6y ago
    I didn’t express an opinion either way. But it’s clear to me that there are some amongst us that believe that a difference of opinion must mean everyone who disagrees must therefore be in a cargo cult. That is what I am taking issue with. It’s also against the guidelines here.
    - luckylion 6y ago
      I'm still struggling to find out the non-cult reason for "the feature must be banned from the browser, just being able to disable it for all time with a single click is not enough".