4 ms·

> Conversely, if Safari refuses to implement some alleged 'feature', it becomes much less useful even if Chrome does implement it. How is Safari not implementi

> Conversely, if Safari refuses to implement some alleged 'feature', it becomes much less useful even if Chrome does implement it. How is Safari not implementing standards seen as a good thing? While I do acknowledge that there might be privacy concerns when it comes to Chrome, I do appreciate that Google is trying to push the Web forward, while Apple is trying to hold the Web back. Safari truly is the worst browser, I fucking hate it. Apple is doing the bare minimum and pretends to "protect user privacy" when all they do is to prevent the web to compete with their app store. Apple pretends to care about the user experience when they are the only ones not implementing standards that would benefit the user. Ohh and you are on Windows and wan't to debug something on Safari? Forget it.

JumpCrisscross 6y ago
> How is Safari not implementing standards seen as a good thing? One, “feature” isn’t the same as a standard. And two, standards aren’t standard. They’re adopted through a dubious process and then ignored by the most powerful companies.
- fragile_frogs 6y ago
  > And two, standards aren’t standard. They’re adopted through a dubious process and then ignored by the most powerful companies. Apple is really the only one these days ignoring these standards. Even if it a "dubious process", if there is consensus among the majority browser vendors I would call it standard.
  - JumpCrisscross 6y ago
    > if there is consensus among the majority browser vendors I would call it standard “Consensus among the majority browser vendors” effectively means what Google does.
JohnBooty 6y ago
Ohh and you are on Windows and wan't to debug something on Safari? Forget it. Yeah, this utterly baffles me. You'd think Apple, out of sheer self-interest, would offer some sort of "Safari for Developers" that runs on Windows/Linux. Even if it's some kind of klunky suboptimally-performant thing. Just make it really obvious in terms of it's branding and theming that it's devs-only.
- fragile_frogs 6y ago
  I wanted to test a web app and was naive enough to buy an old iPhone 6, thinking I could test and debug my app. To my disappointment you can't update Safari through the app store and developer tools are pretty much non existent...
  - Google234 6y ago
    To be fair, that’s a very old phone and IOS12 is still getting updates in 2021. I’m not sure that the issue is, safari is updated along with IOS.
    - saagarjha 6y ago
      Safari is not getting updates in 2021.
    - fragile_frogs 6y ago
      I should have probably looked into that before buying the phone. The issue that I have with safari being locked to a specific iOS version is that people on older model such as the iPhone 6 are being stuck with an outdated browser, even though the phone is still useable. To be fair, Apple handles updating iOS a lot better than Android, but Chrome is not tied to the OS versions, this means I can update Chrome through the Play Store which means: 1) faster update cycle and 2) old android phones can still run the latest Chrome.
- jeffchien 6y ago
  My hypothesis is that Apple is probably getting enough money from companies having to buy their devs Macbooks that they don't feel like releasing Safari on Windows/Linux (much less Xcode).
userbinator 6y ago
I do appreciate that Google is trying to push the Web forward, while Apple is trying to hold the Web back. "push the Web forward" is Googlespeak for "gaining control". It gets to decide what the "standards" are and churns them to discourage any competitors while at the same time operating a massive "developers developers developers" style propaganda campaign to gather supporters and help increase its monopoly. I don't use Apple products and disagree a lot with what it does, but this is really a "enemy of an enemy is a friend" situation. Related article: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9961613 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9961613

JumpCrisscross 6y ago

> How is Safari not implementing standards seen as a good thing? One, “feature” isn’t the same as a standard. And two, standards aren’t standard. They’re adopted through a dubious process and then ignored by the most powerful companies.

fragile_frogs 6y ago
> And two, standards aren’t standard. They’re adopted through a dubious process and then ignored by the most powerful companies. Apple is really the only one these days ignoring these standards. Even if it a "dubious process", if there is consensus among the majority browser vendors I would call it standard.
- JumpCrisscross 6y ago
  > if there is consensus among the majority browser vendors I would call it standard “Consensus among the majority browser vendors” effectively means what Google does.

JohnBooty 6y ago

Ohh and you are on Windows and wan't to debug something on Safari? Forget it. Yeah, this utterly baffles me. You'd think Apple, out of sheer self-interest, would offer some sort of "Safari for Developers" that runs on Windows/Linux. Even if it's some kind of klunky suboptimally-performant thing. Just make it really obvious in terms of it's branding and theming that it's devs-only.

fragile_frogs 6y ago
I wanted to test a web app and was naive enough to buy an old iPhone 6, thinking I could test and debug my app. To my disappointment you can't update Safari through the app store and developer tools are pretty much non existent...
- Google234 6y ago
  To be fair, that’s a very old phone and IOS12 is still getting updates in 2021. I’m not sure that the issue is, safari is updated along with IOS.
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    Safari is not getting updates in 2021.
  - fragile_frogs 6y ago
    I should have probably looked into that before buying the phone. The issue that I have with safari being locked to a specific iOS version is that people on older model such as the iPhone 6 are being stuck with an outdated browser, even though the phone is still useable. To be fair, Apple handles updating iOS a lot better than Android, but Chrome is not tied to the OS versions, this means I can update Chrome through the Play Store which means: 1) faster update cycle and 2) old android phones can still run the latest Chrome.
jeffchien 6y ago
My hypothesis is that Apple is probably getting enough money from companies having to buy their devs Macbooks that they don't feel like releasing Safari on Windows/Linux (much less Xcode).

userbinator 6y ago

I do appreciate that Google is trying to push the Web forward, while Apple is trying to hold the Web back. "push the Web forward" is Googlespeak for "gaining control". It gets to decide what the "standards" are and churns them to discourage any competitors while at the same time operating a massive "developers developers developers" style propaganda campaign to gather supporters and help increase its monopoly. I don't use Apple products and disagree a lot with what it does, but this is really a "enemy of an enemy is a friend" situation. Related article: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9961613 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9961613