3 ms·

Imagine a developer: > On top of another abstraction (VMs) Who does not need to badly handle infrastructure > On top of another abstraction (Containers) Who

by linkdd 6y ago

Imagine a developer: > On top of another abstraction (VMs) Who does not need to badly handle infrastructure > On top of another abstraction (Containers) Who does not need to badly handle isolation > On the top of an abstraction (Kubernetes, et.al.) Who does not need to badly handle scalability > On the top of an abstraction (K8s Custom Object specification) Who does not need to badly handle deployment > An abstraction (OAM) Who just wants to ship their code

tmpz22 6y ago
> Who just wants to ship their code That exists, its called a PaaS. Kubernetes was not meant to be a PaaS. I'm starting to think people create these orgs to forward their own career, products, or companies.
- linkdd 6y ago
  > its called a PaaS You mean like Heroku? Kubernetes allows your ops and developers to collaborate and scale and avoid vendor lock-in. How does a PaaS (like Heroku?) allows that?
  - tmpz22 6y ago
    K8s is one of many options to collaborate and scale applications and for many organizations it is not the best option. It also comes with lots of vendor lock-in if you're using a service like GKE, EKS, or AKE, or integrate with any of their loadbalancer or storage solutions! Oracle and Alibaba building a large abstraction on top of kubernetes, to do something kubernetes was not designed to do (though capable of doing), is not the direction I personally believe distributed systems development should standardize around. There are tons of self-hosted PaaS options that are not built on top of massive abstractions and provide better functionality to their users. Since you mentioned Heroku i'll mention https://github.com/dokku/dokku https://github.com/dokku/dokku.
    - linkdd 6y ago
      Yes K8s is one of many options, but one that can translate to many situations. I'd still choose it over anything else when I need more than a `docker run` on a server. Thanks for the link btw.
      - tmpz22 6y ago
        No worries and maybe I am being harsh here but this whole thing seems like a couple big providers trying to push their own idioms on the DevOps industry, an industry which is already saturated on dishonest marketing kool-aid. "Our solution is way better then all those pre-existing solutions!". No. No it isn't. Stop acting like you're helping me when you're really selling me something.
        fengjingchao 6y ago
        Hi there. I think every open source project is trying to push "their own idioms" to the community. But good open source projects provide good technology directions and generic abstractions to reuse, not dishonest marketing. I suspect that marketing would not work if the project is not good -- people are really smart when choosing projects.
        resouer 6y ago
        There's no such industry named "build app-centric platforms".
        tmpz22 6y ago
        The shoveling of "Cloud Native" is in part a bid to sell cloud services at AWS, Azure, GCP, Oracle, Alibaba, etc. Just because the engineers on the ground doing the work conveniently ignore this point doesn't mean that the executives who ultimately green light and fund these projects aren't considering it the #1 priority.
        resouer 6y ago
- resouer 6y ago
  Kubernetes + OAM = PaaS the better way

by linkdd 6y ago

tmpz22 6y ago

> Who just wants to ship their code That exists, its called a PaaS. Kubernetes was not meant to be a PaaS. I'm starting to think people create these orgs to forward their own career, products, or companies.

linkdd 6y ago
> its called a PaaS You mean like Heroku? Kubernetes allows your ops and developers to collaborate and scale and avoid vendor lock-in. How does a PaaS (like Heroku?) allows that?
- tmpz22 6y ago
  K8s is one of many options to collaborate and scale applications and for many organizations it is not the best option. It also comes with lots of vendor lock-in if you're using a service like GKE, EKS, or AKE, or integrate with any of their loadbalancer or storage solutions! Oracle and Alibaba building a large abstraction on top of kubernetes, to do something kubernetes was not designed to do (though capable of doing), is not the direction I personally believe distributed systems development should standardize around. There are tons of self-hosted PaaS options that are not built on top of massive abstractions and provide better functionality to their users. Since you mentioned Heroku i'll mention https://github.com/dokku/dokku https://github.com/dokku/dokku.
  - linkdd 6y ago
    Yes K8s is one of many options, but one that can translate to many situations. I'd still choose it over anything else when I need more than a `docker run` on a server. Thanks for the link btw.
    - tmpz22 6y ago
      No worries and maybe I am being harsh here but this whole thing seems like a couple big providers trying to push their own idioms on the DevOps industry, an industry which is already saturated on dishonest marketing kool-aid. "Our solution is way better then all those pre-existing solutions!". No. No it isn't. Stop acting like you're helping me when you're really selling me something.
      - fengjingchao 6y ago
        Hi there. I think every open source project is trying to push "their own idioms" to the community. But good open source projects provide good technology directions and generic abstractions to reuse, not dishonest marketing. I suspect that marketing would not work if the project is not good -- people are really smart when choosing projects.
      - resouer 6y ago
        There's no such industry named "build app-centric platforms".
        tmpz22 6y ago
        The shoveling of "Cloud Native" is in part a bid to sell cloud services at AWS, Azure, GCP, Oracle, Alibaba, etc. Just because the engineers on the ground doing the work conveniently ignore this point doesn't mean that the executives who ultimately green light and fund these projects aren't considering it the #1 priority.
        resouer 6y ago
resouer 6y ago
Kubernetes + OAM = PaaS the better way