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The video is worth a watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=antLneVlxcs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=antLneVlxcs I think it's fair to say that there are def
by rococode 6y ago
The video is worth a watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=antLneVlxcs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=antLneVlxcs
I think it's fair to say that there are definitely some sketchy moments in there. The one that surprised me the most was marked "Near Collision (2)" in the video (12:25). A car really close to the Tesla doesn't seem to be picked up at all until it's too late: https://i.imgur.com/BG0gN2R.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/BG0gN2R.jpeg
You can see in the first frame there that on the screen there's nothing in front of the Tesla, it's just the usual white background. But right out the windshield we can see the car is already very close. At the bottom frame which is a split second later, the car is finally detected and we can see the screen now shows the car. But at that point the driver manually intervened with a sharp swerve right as they were about to hit the car. Going frame by frame on Youtube the green box indicating the car was only there for 4 frames before the driver disengaged.
I was aware that self driving is far from ready but I didn't know that even basic detection stuff like this is buggy. Double parked cars, people walking in the street, etc, I would expect to be problematic. But this is not really an edge case, it's just a regular car at close range with no obstructions in between...
- GhostVII 6y agoAccording to what I've seen people saying online, in most of these cases Tesla does identify the vehicle but it identifies it as going in the wrong direction so doesn't think it is a problem for pathfinding. Vehicles going in the opposite direction are marked in yellow on the visualization, so they are hard to see sometimes.
- HanayamaTriplet 6y agoThe frame grabs of this incident clearly show no vehicle, yellow or not. There are a couple of other yellow objects visible, so this is not a case where it would be hard to see.
- GhostVII 6y agoIn the video I actually do see the yellow outline if I really turn up the resolution, it's super faint though, hard to tell if it is there the whole time. Easier to see in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uClWlVCwHsI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uClWlVCwHsI , at 4:00 the cars are all yellow when they shouldn't be.
- onelovetwo 6y agoBut it usually marks on coming traffic, it seems to be flat out missing the cars in some cases
- vardump 6y agoTrue! While it's difficult to see, the yellow car is present and turns green when it is passed, so the car appears to be detected by the system. Very hard to see because the brightness of color yellow is pretty close to brightness of the background, almost no contrast. They should have picked some other color instead.
- lupire 6y agoI don't think optimizing for Youtube is important.
- notJim 6y agoI thought maybe this Oakland video was an outlier in how bad it was, but I've watched several videos from the related videos, and the Tesla subreddit, and the system really seems like it's in bad shape. I'm really surprised that regulators are allowing this to be tested on public roads, and that Tesla hasn't pulled it. It is bad enough that when I see Teslas on the road now, I feel unsafe, because the system is so unreliable right now. I would encourage anyone to watch the videos and make up their own mind, bc I do feel that people over-correct in their Tesla skepticism sometimes. But in this case, it seems warranted.
- naebother 6y ago> It is bad enough that when I see Teslas on the road now, I feel unsafe, because the system is so unreliable right now. At the very least you should be required to put a visual sign that your vehicle is in "FSD" mode. Sort of like how we require "oversize load" signs so that others can take extra precautions around those vehicles.
- ChrisMarshallNY 6y agoIn Japan, trucks are required to have three horizontal green lights above the cab, facing forward[0]. These indicate speed. I would guess FSD should have something similar. [0] https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-usage-of-three-green-lights-on-a-Japanese-truck https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-usage-of-three-green-light...
- tomjakubowski 6y agoMy vote is for a big old Cylon eye in the windshield.
- lumberingjack 6y agoThey all just look like knight rider, oh shit was knight rider a Cylon?
- tomjakubowski 6y ago
- walrus01 6y agoThe other video that this guy posted is also worth a watch: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26519495 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26519495 It's failing to safely do a very basic turn across traffic on a clear flat road with wide open view to oncoming traffic, on a clear sunny day. There's not even any weird concrete barriers, shrubbery, signage, traffic light control boxes or such blocking the view of the oncoming cars.
- vkou 6y agoThis is utterly horrifying. Even if Tesla owners opting into this beta test are willing to put their lives on the, uh, line, I'm not sure everyone else on the road is as keen as they are to be volunteered into this test. I'm not sure I understand how other posters are watching this video, and are concluding that the FSD system is being 'overly cautious'. To me, it looks like it's doing its best to get T-boned.
- walrus01 6y agoIt seems to be either overly cautious and just frozen in place, or "I'm gonna get myself t-boned", no middle ground in between.
- TheRealSteel 6y agoThis is precisely my problem, especially with the new Model S that guesses whether you want to go forward or reverse. I'm sure at least a few people will die for the sake of this "feature", and as a pedestrian I can't simply opt out of that risk by not buying a Tesla.
- hef19898 6y agoWhich makes me wonder why these features are still allowed in cars in general. Having an aerospace background, I have no idea how certification of these things work for cars, but I would like to think some governing body has to sign of on this stuff. At least in Germany we have the TÜV for cars already on the road, and sometimes changing basic stuff like suspension isn't allowed. For safety reasons, which I get. On the other hand, you have half assed self driving features in production cars (not just Tesla).
- ycombobreaker 6y ago> people walking in the street, etc, I would expect to be problematic As a baseline, this should not pose a problem.
- heavyset_go 6y ago> The video is worth a watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=antLneVlxcs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=antLneVlxcs For contrast, here's Tesla's promotional video[1] for this feature and its caption: > The person in the driver’s seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself. It's been up on Tesla's site for almost 5 years now. [1] https://www.tesla.com/videos/autopilot-self-driving-hardware-neighborhood-long?redirect=no https://www.tesla.com/videos/autopilot-self-driving-hardware...
- smnrchrds 6y ago> The person in the driver’s seat is only there for legal reasons. He's the legal crumple zone.
- mxxx 6y agoDid lol
- heavyset_go 6y agoThis is probably my favorite post on this site, good one.
- donio 6y agoThere is nothing "beta" about this, it's at a "proof of concept" level at best.
- jampekka 6y agoAnd it's questionable if it even proofs the concept.
- creato 6y agoWhile watching the video, my thoughts as a software engineer: wow, this is impressive. My thoughts as a driver of a car: wow, this is trash and should not be on the road.
- jjav 6y agoThat's a great way to put it, agreed. Purely from a software perspective, that's quite something. But as a driver on public streets? Astoundingly terrible and very dangerous.
- hinkley 6y agoIf I had a friend who jerked the steering wheel around like that, I would not ride with them anymore. That is practically an SNL skit about a bad driver.
- oliv__ 6y ago> https://i.imgur.com/BG0gN2R.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/BG0gN2R.jpeg My god, and this is on the roads?
- sedgjh23 6y agoYea, as a development build
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- atupis 6y agoDoing ML with stereo vision is very hard in controlled settings, and I don't even wanna think how hard it has to be in moving vehicles with lots reflections and other IRL stuff.
- heavyset_go 6y agoI'm pretty sure Tesla only uses monoscopic vision for its self-driving features, or maybe it's just for Autopilot.
- oliv__ 6y agoWho cares what the the difficulty involved is when these are going to be on the streets today. You sound like the video's passenger
- captainmuon 6y agoI wonder if these cars distinguish between "I don't know what's in this space" and "I'm sure this space is empty". I hope they do... If the car doesn't recognize the other car right away it is no problem, as long as it is 100% sure it can stop in time if something appears. I believe safe autonomous cars should behave a bit strange to human sensibilites: They would drive a LOT more defensive in many situations since they cannot be 100% sure that a child is not going to pop out the bushes and onto the street. But on a freeway, maybe if they negotiated with all surrounding cars to drive as a "fleet", it would be able to drive a LOT faster than the safe speed limit for a human driver. The comfort of the passengers would become the limiting factor in many situations.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- sixothree 6y agoThe most disconcerting part of the video is watching real world objects blink in and out of the computer's "awareness".
- spyder 6y agoYea, I understand there is noise in signals so some jiggly lines are OK, but the detected objects disappearing and jumping around seems horrible.
- HellDunkel 6y agoI think this is ok. The perception system has a threshold for the classifications and all the logic comes after that. It cant make reasonable decisions that humans can undersand on something that is 80% likely to be something. Its where where this tech is at right now. What is not ok is to call this FSD.
- Bud 6y agoHumans gain object permanence at around 3 months of age. This software does not yet seem to have mastered it.
- kenmacd 6y agoDo we know what that view is showing though? If you tapped in to a 3-month-old's visual system you would see things disappear too, but that's not the full story. Maybe it's the same here?
- xur17 6y agoPossibly, but it seems odd to me that they would hook it up to the raw visual system rather than showing the "current state" of the car's perception.
- loopz 6y agoHonestly surprised people are surprised.
- leoc 6y agoDriving Instructor Simulator 2021
- jjav 6y agoThanks for the video link, very enlightening. It is disturbing that these are allowed on public streets, its driving skill is far below even the most nervous beginner.
- OJFord 6y agoI don't understand why anyone wants anything less than full ('level five') self-driving - that video looks more fatiguing than just driving yourself. Watching someone drive and being ready to take over is a skilled job, why would I want to learn to do it, and do it every time I want to drive anywhere, and not be paid?
- tjs8rj 6y agoMaybe Tesla should follow the “mock it til you make it” pattern with a lot of these AI companies: just hire a bunch of gig workers to sit in simulators driving your car remotely using the cameras and sensors themselves. Have the model learn from them. Genuinely wonder if this would have better results
- henrikschroder 6y agoI had a car with level 2 self-driving, and it was amazing for the commute, going down from SF to the valley and back. It removed a lot of cognitive load from the boring highway driving, because that part is so predictive that the car could handle it. So that's a big partial win for systems like that.
- OJFord 6y agoBut if you have to watch and be ready to take over at a moment's notice... it doesn't really remove that cognitive load? Unless you don't watch and aren't ready of course, but that's not really the point.
- mam2 6y agoIm both suprised and underwhelmed by the video. Its like this video make me really doubt on the FSD system because he looks very hesitant, but at the same time the 4 "near misses" looks so much as the driver overreacting to something that was perfectly fine (especially the curb and the """head on""") that i had to look if the youtuber didnt have some ties to another car maker.
- bmitc 6y agoSeems predictably terrible.