6 ms·

Google Workspace requires users to spend $100 to access YouTube

34 points by neom 6y ago

tadfisher 6y ago
Yes, that appears to be a policy.
woofie11 6y ago
I created a GSuite account a long time ago for my family members. I've been screwed over by Google every few months the past few years. * My kid can't get Google Voice * There is no support * Google intentionally tries to make things as insecure as possible * And so on.... It's one of the many harsh lessons I've had about relying on Google for anything. They're trying to upsell on a premium account, but that's not how it's playing out. The way it's playing out is they lose millions of dollars in cloud business in my professional life.
- meibo 6y ago
  > * Google intentionally tries to make things as insecure as possible Can you elaborate on this? I maintain a big GSuite organization for a NGO and Google consistently pushes for better security guidelines and gives admins powerful tools and policies to manage them. These(with the exception of vault licenses, which you probably won't need for your family) are not usually locked behind upgrades either. Same with the support, the times I've had to contact them it was really just a click and maybe half a minute of waiting until I've had a representative on the line via chat/Phone that was able to help rather quickly.
  - CamJN 6y ago
    Not who you asked, but if you have signed into a Google app (Gmail, youtube, etc) on a phone then they will send a push notification to that phone that bypasses 2FA. This cannot be disabled, you can choose to login with the second factor you setup, but it doesn't provide any security anymore.
    - Daho0n 6y ago
      If you are signing into something from a phone and get the prompt on that same phone you already have 1) chosen to add the account phone-wide on that phone and 2) provided 2FA to do so. What you are doing is browsing the web on your 2FA hardware and complaining it isn't secure.
      - p49k 6y ago
        1. I don’t want every device I login with Google to automatically become a 2FA device. There are plenty of scenarios where this reduces account security. 2. They send these non-optional push notifications as part of the account recovery process as well. Once someone was relentlessly trying to get into my gmail account (not maliciously, I think they probably had a similar address and got confused) and I was deluged with these notifications for hours with no way to make them stop.
        mindslight 6y ago
        3. They then go on to disable your actual recovery options that they've deemed "less secure". I recently tried to sign on to my grandfathered Gapps account to reset its activity timeout (Google demands I perform the account recovery process for every login). This time, Google decided I couldn't authenticate with my longstanding recovery email, instead demanding that I use some long cleared browser/tablet session (lol, such surveillance culture assumptions). I was eventually able to contact what appeared to be a real live human in GSuite support that took on my case even though it was a free account (after going a few rounds of them referring me to gmail account support, and gmail support bot referring me back to them). So believe it or not, it is possible to contact a human at Google. Of course after I got the grandfathered Gapps account back, I was trying to figure out what it's actually good for, especially now that they've restricted adding domain names. The only things I could find are if I wanted to use gmail on my personal domain (no thanks), or if I want my published Google identity to include my own domain name (shrug). So back into storage it goes, this time with an explicit "2FA" tablet.
      - CamJN 6y ago
        You seem to be labouring under some pretty egregious misconceptions. I am not signing into something from my phone. The flow is: i try to log into gmail/google docs/whatever on my laptop's browser. Google sends my phone, tablet, any other mobile device I own a notification. if someone taps that notification, the laptop's browser is logged in, with no 2fa. There's no such thing as a phone-wide google account on iPhones. There are google made apps, which completely fuck the security for your google account.
  - woofie11 6y ago
    GSuite started free. Google's goal is to up-sell me on a $6/month plan. With my whole family on, that'd be many thousands of dollars over our lifetimes. We had an account compromised. We were trying to understand what happened, and ideally, get the attacker prosecuted. Google has the auditing tools which would have allowed us to do this, but: 1) Google removed access to security/auditing tools for legacy accounts, in an attempt to up-sell their $$$ accounts. 2) As a "legacy" account, we can't get Google support (the free support directs us to Workspace support, and Workspace blocks legacy accounts from contacting their support). There is no human being who will talk to us. This would have been an open-and-shut issue, but I couldn't afford thousands of dollars to Google just to be able to do the right thing and prosecute the attacker. On my end, that means that I don't know what was stolen or destroyed, which is kind of a bummer. On your end, that means a cybercriminal is going free, and I'm pretty sure they'll pull the same shtick a few other places. Maybe your company. There are viable places to do freemium (even if it is sleazy after promising free-for-life), but security isn't one of them. Intentionally bad security hurts the ecosystem. It's pissing in the pool. I know you've got a paid account, but the callous attitude toward customer security and data translates over. You're a statistic. I'd never use Google Cloud in a B2B setting voluntarily, with viable alternatives.
- Daho0n 6y ago
  >The way it's playing out is they lose millions of dollars in cloud business in my professional life. You not being happy with something and for that reason not wanting to use something else makes no sense. As another comment points out using it as an actual "million dollar business" (to passphrase your words) gives support with a click and none of the problems you complain about. >Google intentionally tries to make things as insecure as possible Hyperbole. It doesn't. Just don't browse the internet on your 2FA device.
  - gcatalfamo 6y ago
    > Just don't browse the internet on your 2FA device. I can’t tell if this is supposed to be a joke
    - Bancakes 6y ago
      You should buy a separate Google Pixel dedicated 2fa device. /s
TechnoTimeStop 6y ago
Probably a good thing - it means their system cannot be rife with abuse from fake accounts plaguing the social sphere.
- neom 6y ago
  Their lowest package is $6/mth, if you're a student who just wants a domain with gmail at a low cost, you effectivly have to wait over a year to use youtube on that account if you so wish. Seems somewhat intense.
  - ivanvanderbyl 6y ago
    Or 1 year in advance on their business standard plan and wait 60 days.
- allturtles 6y ago
  Agreed, this is just blocking an abuse vector. It also only blocks writes (comments/uploads) not access, you can still watch videos just fine.
  - neom 6y ago
    You actually cannot watch videos just fine, it blocks youtube/* You're presented with a page that says you don't have permission to use youtube(no errors), and when you google why, you find that support page.
    - btown 6y ago
      This seems like an implementation error - why not treat the user as if they were not logged in?
    - allturtles 6y ago
      Good to know, I hadn't tried it, I just based my comment on reading the policy.
orliesaurus 6y ago
I never heard of workspace, when they say must spend a $100...spend it on what exactly
- neom 6y ago
  Google workspace formally g suite, you can attach your own domain. In my case, I pay $6/mth so I guess I have to wait years to use YouTube.
  - orliesaurus 6y ago
    Gotcha
- lights0123 6y ago
  Google Workspace was formerly G Suite, which was formerly Google Apps.
  - orliesaurus 6y ago
    Ah ok thanks
Meph504 6y ago
I really feel like Google wants out of this business, but doesn't want the stink of yet another killed off product, little else makes sense to me. They put so much effort establishing the market, and then just let it die on the vine, being surpassed by competitors, and nickle and dimming every little thing.
- Jaxkr 6y ago
  What are you talking about? YouTube or Google Workspace (formerly known as GSuite)? Both are massive and profitable businesses.
  - Meph504 6y ago
    Being profitable doesn't mean Google wants to stay in the business or that they are investing or innovating the product. Take Google apps (or its name of the week) and compare it to M365 It becomes clear they aren't staying competitive or innovating. And they gave up a 3 year lead
    - woofie11 6y ago
      I prefer Google Workspace to M365, in that the technology still works better. Outlook search doesn't work. Word isn't good for collaborative editing. Etc. I would never, ever, ever run a business on Google Workspace, because of a long history of Google treating customers like statistics, and Microsoft treating customers like partners. Microsoft's relationship with customers has been a slightly abusive partnership at time, but a relationship still beats being a statistic. If my business fails due to Google Workspace, Google doesn't care. Workspace changes terms, discontinues things, and breaks things arbitrarily and capriciously, offloading costs and risk onto me. If my business fails due to a M365 issue, Microsoft treats it as a failure. They try to provide migration strategies, support promises to customers, etc. When I was 15, I went for the glitziest technology. Having seen a few businesses through, I look less at the tech side and more at the business and human side. I don't believe Google will ever achieve trust there.
      - 6y ago
perrohunter 6y ago
these sort of gsuite problems and the google cloud problems are the reason I'm moving away from google products for my personal stuff, only gmail to go
- treesknees 6y ago
  I've also been working to do this but it's difficult. I still have friends and family who use Google Photos, for example, and you're pretty stuck once you start using shared albums.
millstone 6y ago
Is this about appearing to host YouTube from another domain? Free Google accounts can upload videos for free.
londons_explore 6y ago
I see they've done this to reduce spam (otherwise someone can create a million Google apps accounts, pay with a fake credit card, and then go win the troll wars in the YouTube comments). A better solution would be to treat all users from a single domain as one in the spam filter. Ie. If too many users from a single domain are found to be spamming, the whole domain gets YouTube blocked. That would probably get them bad press too - when some companies viral marketing video gets taken down because a few other employees were using spambots. Anti-spam is hard...
donmcronald 6y ago
How does this impact legacy accounts? Is there a one time thing I can spend $100 on?
- neom 6y ago
  I believe it's new accounts only, however if you do any kinda of migrating around domains (as happened to me) you'l trigger it. You can probably make an advance payment of $100 to google work and then wait the 2 months.

34 points by neom 6y ago

Yes, that appears to be a policy.

I created a GSuite account a long time ago for my family members. I've been screwed over by Google every few months the past few years. * My kid can't get Google Voice * There is no support * Google intentionally tries to make things as insecure as possible * And so on.... It's one of the many harsh lessons I've had about relying on Google for anything. They're trying to upsell on a premium account, but that's not how it's playing out. The way it's playing out is they lose millions of dollars in cloud business in my professional life.

meibo 6y ago
> * Google intentionally tries to make things as insecure as possible Can you elaborate on this? I maintain a big GSuite organization for a NGO and Google consistently pushes for better security guidelines and gives admins powerful tools and policies to manage them. These(with the exception of vault licenses, which you probably won't need for your family) are not usually locked behind upgrades either. Same with the support, the times I've had to contact them it was really just a click and maybe half a minute of waiting until I've had a representative on the line via chat/Phone that was able to help rather quickly.
- CamJN 6y ago
  Not who you asked, but if you have signed into a Google app (Gmail, youtube, etc) on a phone then they will send a push notification to that phone that bypasses 2FA. This cannot be disabled, you can choose to login with the second factor you setup, but it doesn't provide any security anymore.
  - Daho0n 6y ago
    If you are signing into something from a phone and get the prompt on that same phone you already have 1) chosen to add the account phone-wide on that phone and 2) provided 2FA to do so. What you are doing is browsing the web on your 2FA hardware and complaining it isn't secure.
    - p49k 6y ago
      1. I don’t want every device I login with Google to automatically become a 2FA device. There are plenty of scenarios where this reduces account security. 2. They send these non-optional push notifications as part of the account recovery process as well. Once someone was relentlessly trying to get into my gmail account (not maliciously, I think they probably had a similar address and got confused) and I was deluged with these notifications for hours with no way to make them stop.
      - mindslight 6y ago
        3. They then go on to disable your actual recovery options that they've deemed "less secure". I recently tried to sign on to my grandfathered Gapps account to reset its activity timeout (Google demands I perform the account recovery process for every login). This time, Google decided I couldn't authenticate with my longstanding recovery email, instead demanding that I use some long cleared browser/tablet session (lol, such surveillance culture assumptions). I was eventually able to contact what appeared to be a real live human in GSuite support that took on my case even though it was a free account (after going a few rounds of them referring me to gmail account support, and gmail support bot referring me back to them). So believe it or not, it is possible to contact a human at Google. Of course after I got the grandfathered Gapps account back, I was trying to figure out what it's actually good for, especially now that they've restricted adding domain names. The only things I could find are if I wanted to use gmail on my personal domain (no thanks), or if I want my published Google identity to include my own domain name (shrug). So back into storage it goes, this time with an explicit "2FA" tablet.
    - CamJN 6y ago
      You seem to be labouring under some pretty egregious misconceptions. I am not signing into something from my phone. The flow is: i try to log into gmail/google docs/whatever on my laptop's browser. Google sends my phone, tablet, any other mobile device I own a notification. if someone taps that notification, the laptop's browser is logged in, with no 2fa. There's no such thing as a phone-wide google account on iPhones. There are google made apps, which completely fuck the security for your google account.
- woofie11 6y ago
  GSuite started free. Google's goal is to up-sell me on a $6/month plan. With my whole family on, that'd be many thousands of dollars over our lifetimes. We had an account compromised. We were trying to understand what happened, and ideally, get the attacker prosecuted. Google has the auditing tools which would have allowed us to do this, but: 1) Google removed access to security/auditing tools for legacy accounts, in an attempt to up-sell their $$$ accounts. 2) As a "legacy" account, we can't get Google support (the free support directs us to Workspace support, and Workspace blocks legacy accounts from contacting their support). There is no human being who will talk to us. This would have been an open-and-shut issue, but I couldn't afford thousands of dollars to Google just to be able to do the right thing and prosecute the attacker. On my end, that means that I don't know what was stolen or destroyed, which is kind of a bummer. On your end, that means a cybercriminal is going free, and I'm pretty sure they'll pull the same shtick a few other places. Maybe your company. There are viable places to do freemium (even if it is sleazy after promising free-for-life), but security isn't one of them. Intentionally bad security hurts the ecosystem. It's pissing in the pool. I know you've got a paid account, but the callous attitude toward customer security and data translates over. You're a statistic. I'd never use Google Cloud in a B2B setting voluntarily, with viable alternatives.
Daho0n 6y ago
>The way it's playing out is they lose millions of dollars in cloud business in my professional life. You not being happy with something and for that reason not wanting to use something else makes no sense. As another comment points out using it as an actual "million dollar business" (to passphrase your words) gives support with a click and none of the problems you complain about. >Google intentionally tries to make things as insecure as possible Hyperbole. It doesn't. Just don't browse the internet on your 2FA device.
- gcatalfamo 6y ago
  > Just don't browse the internet on your 2FA device. I can’t tell if this is supposed to be a joke
  - Bancakes 6y ago
    You should buy a separate Google Pixel dedicated 2fa device. /s

TechnoTimeStop 6y ago

Probably a good thing - it means their system cannot be rife with abuse from fake accounts plaguing the social sphere.

neom 6y ago
Their lowest package is $6/mth, if you're a student who just wants a domain with gmail at a low cost, you effectivly have to wait over a year to use youtube on that account if you so wish. Seems somewhat intense.
- ivanvanderbyl 6y ago
  Or 1 year in advance on their business standard plan and wait 60 days.
allturtles 6y ago
Agreed, this is just blocking an abuse vector. It also only blocks writes (comments/uploads) not access, you can still watch videos just fine.
- neom 6y ago
  You actually cannot watch videos just fine, it blocks youtube/* You're presented with a page that says you don't have permission to use youtube(no errors), and when you google why, you find that support page.
  - btown 6y ago
    This seems like an implementation error - why not treat the user as if they were not logged in?
  - allturtles 6y ago
    Good to know, I hadn't tried it, I just based my comment on reading the policy.

orliesaurus 6y ago

I never heard of workspace, when they say must spend a $100...spend it on what exactly

neom 6y ago
Google workspace formally g suite, you can attach your own domain. In my case, I pay $6/mth so I guess I have to wait years to use YouTube.
- orliesaurus 6y ago
  Gotcha
lights0123 6y ago
Google Workspace was formerly G Suite, which was formerly Google Apps.
- orliesaurus 6y ago
  Ah ok thanks

Meph504 6y ago

I really feel like Google wants out of this business, but doesn't want the stink of yet another killed off product, little else makes sense to me. They put so much effort establishing the market, and then just let it die on the vine, being surpassed by competitors, and nickle and dimming every little thing.

Jaxkr 6y ago
What are you talking about? YouTube or Google Workspace (formerly known as GSuite)? Both are massive and profitable businesses.
- Meph504 6y ago
  Being profitable doesn't mean Google wants to stay in the business or that they are investing or innovating the product. Take Google apps (or its name of the week) and compare it to M365 It becomes clear they aren't staying competitive or innovating. And they gave up a 3 year lead
  - woofie11 6y ago
    I prefer Google Workspace to M365, in that the technology still works better. Outlook search doesn't work. Word isn't good for collaborative editing. Etc. I would never, ever, ever run a business on Google Workspace, because of a long history of Google treating customers like statistics, and Microsoft treating customers like partners. Microsoft's relationship with customers has been a slightly abusive partnership at time, but a relationship still beats being a statistic. If my business fails due to Google Workspace, Google doesn't care. Workspace changes terms, discontinues things, and breaks things arbitrarily and capriciously, offloading costs and risk onto me. If my business fails due to a M365 issue, Microsoft treats it as a failure. They try to provide migration strategies, support promises to customers, etc. When I was 15, I went for the glitziest technology. Having seen a few businesses through, I look less at the tech side and more at the business and human side. I don't believe Google will ever achieve trust there.
    - 6y ago

perrohunter 6y ago

these sort of gsuite problems and the google cloud problems are the reason I'm moving away from google products for my personal stuff, only gmail to go

treesknees 6y ago
I've also been working to do this but it's difficult. I still have friends and family who use Google Photos, for example, and you're pretty stuck once you start using shared albums.

millstone 6y ago

Is this about appearing to host YouTube from another domain? Free Google accounts can upload videos for free.

londons_explore 6y ago

I see they've done this to reduce spam (otherwise someone can create a million Google apps accounts, pay with a fake credit card, and then go win the troll wars in the YouTube comments). A better solution would be to treat all users from a single domain as one in the spam filter. Ie. If too many users from a single domain are found to be spamming, the whole domain gets YouTube blocked. That would probably get them bad press too - when some companies viral marketing video gets taken down because a few other employees were using spambots. Anti-spam is hard...

donmcronald 6y ago

How does this impact legacy accounts? Is there a one time thing I can spend $100 on?

neom 6y ago
I believe it's new accounts only, however if you do any kinda of migrating around domains (as happened to me) you'l trigger it. You can probably make an advance payment of $100 to google work and then wait the 2 months.