4 ms·

I think you see it most in 'eurojank' games these days but I really love the ambition of older games that include really unusual or deep gameplay mechanics that

by ljm 6y ago

I think you see it most in 'eurojank' games these days but I really love the ambition of older games that include really unusual or deep gameplay mechanics that you'd never see in a typical AAA title. Games like Gothic, Elex, Kingdom Come: Deliverance, Two Worlds, Eye: Divine Cybermancy, basically most Deck13 titles... The late 90s and early 2000s were such a great time for PC games like that.

frabert 6y ago
> Games like Gothic, Elex I really think that Piranha Bytes are the most interesting game studio with regards to RPGs right now. I think they have the best blend of weird mechanics + plot driven gameplay out there, despite their relatively limited resources.
selfhoster11 6y ago
What are the 'eurojank' games you mentioned? Can you give some examples?
- avianlyric 6y ago
  Not GP, but Eurojank is normally referring to games like Metro 2077, S.T.A.L.K.E.R etc. Made by European studios (usually east Europe), with grand ideas, but missing some of the polish you would expect from a AAA game. I be clear I think these games are fantastic, and personally consider the missing polish an asset rather than a detriment to these games, but it certainly impacts game play. Interesting you could put forward the argument that Cyberpunk 2077 is a Eurojank game as CD Projekt Red is a polish developer, and well, Cyberpunk has more than its fair share of bugs.
  - tome 6y ago
    > European studios (usually east Europe), with grand ideas, but missing some of the polish
    - 1000101 6y ago
      I bet CD Projekt Red doesn't miss any
  - selfhoster11 6y ago
    As a European, I cannot help but to find the term extremely offensive if that's indeed the intended meaning. De-normalising a below-AAA level of polish with such language makes me uneasy, at best.
nine_k 6y ago
AAA titles now have Hollywood budgets, and thus Hollywood's restrictions: no risky moves, play safe, be family-friendly, return the investment and produce a franchise to sell sequels and swag. It leaves rather little room for art or innovation. This is why I mostly stopped paying attention to such games, and watch for what smaller, bolder studios produce on 5-10% of an AAA budget.
- jonny_eh 6y ago
  > family-friendly The most successful AAA title of all time is GTAV. Fun for the whole family ^_^ https://www.trustedreviews.com/news/gta-5-now-profitable-entertainment-product-ever-3448487 https://www.trustedreviews.com/news/gta-5-now-profitable-ent...
  - Paul_S 6y ago
    It is played by kids, teens and adults, so yes. Family friendly.
    - smrq 6y ago
      If that's the bar then what isn't family friendly? I played Postal as a kid.
mezentius 6y ago
In some ways games of this period are similar to the movies of the 1920s and 30s, before genres had ossified into their more rigid modern forms. In the same way that you'll find the plot of a 30s movie moving strangely between murder mystery, horror, and gangster drama, there are 80s and 90s games that combine two or more oddly disparate genres in fascinating ways. A good example is the game MEAN STREETS (1989), which is both a point-and-click detective adventure game and a full flight simulator as you move between locations.
- npunt 6y ago
  This is exactly how I talk about those days with friends. Genre expectations were not so restrictive and it was more about exploration than exploitation, though the latter was increasingly common as the 90s came to a close. I worked as a lowly artist & level designer on one of the later genre hybrids (Battlezone II) amidst the realtime strategy boom of the late 90s and as a young creator it was so much more fun to work in the spaces between genres where things hadn't been tried. I would have loved to have worked in the early/mid 90s when genres were even less well defined.

by ljm 6y ago

frabert 6y ago

> Games like Gothic, Elex I really think that Piranha Bytes are the most interesting game studio with regards to RPGs right now. I think they have the best blend of weird mechanics + plot driven gameplay out there, despite their relatively limited resources.

selfhoster11 6y ago

What are the 'eurojank' games you mentioned? Can you give some examples?

avianlyric 6y ago
Not GP, but Eurojank is normally referring to games like Metro 2077, S.T.A.L.K.E.R etc. Made by European studios (usually east Europe), with grand ideas, but missing some of the polish you would expect from a AAA game. I be clear I think these games are fantastic, and personally consider the missing polish an asset rather than a detriment to these games, but it certainly impacts game play. Interesting you could put forward the argument that Cyberpunk 2077 is a Eurojank game as CD Projekt Red is a polish developer, and well, Cyberpunk has more than its fair share of bugs.
- tome 6y ago
  > European studios (usually east Europe), with grand ideas, but missing some of the polish
  - 1000101 6y ago
    I bet CD Projekt Red doesn't miss any
- selfhoster11 6y ago
  As a European, I cannot help but to find the term extremely offensive if that's indeed the intended meaning. De-normalising a below-AAA level of polish with such language makes me uneasy, at best.

nine_k 6y ago

AAA titles now have Hollywood budgets, and thus Hollywood's restrictions: no risky moves, play safe, be family-friendly, return the investment and produce a franchise to sell sequels and swag. It leaves rather little room for art or innovation. This is why I mostly stopped paying attention to such games, and watch for what smaller, bolder studios produce on 5-10% of an AAA budget.

jonny_eh 6y ago
> family-friendly The most successful AAA title of all time is GTAV. Fun for the whole family ^_^ https://www.trustedreviews.com/news/gta-5-now-profitable-entertainment-product-ever-3448487 https://www.trustedreviews.com/news/gta-5-now-profitable-ent...
- Paul_S 6y ago
  It is played by kids, teens and adults, so yes. Family friendly.
  - smrq 6y ago
    If that's the bar then what isn't family friendly? I played Postal as a kid.

mezentius 6y ago

In some ways games of this period are similar to the movies of the 1920s and 30s, before genres had ossified into their more rigid modern forms. In the same way that you'll find the plot of a 30s movie moving strangely between murder mystery, horror, and gangster drama, there are 80s and 90s games that combine two or more oddly disparate genres in fascinating ways. A good example is the game MEAN STREETS (1989), which is both a point-and-click detective adventure game and a full flight simulator as you move between locations.

npunt 6y ago
This is exactly how I talk about those days with friends. Genre expectations were not so restrictive and it was more about exploration than exploitation, though the latter was increasingly common as the 90s came to a close. I worked as a lowly artist & level designer on one of the later genre hybrids (Battlezone II) amidst the realtime strategy boom of the late 90s and as a young creator it was so much more fun to work in the spaces between genres where things hadn't been tried. I would have loved to have worked in the early/mid 90s when genres were even less well defined.