8 ms·

It is such a bizarre market. I sometimes browse it for sociological amusement, but it creeps me out quickly. For actual enjoyment, if a video starts begging fo

by _jal 6y ago

It is such a bizarre market. I sometimes browse it for sociological amusement, but it creeps me out quickly. For actual enjoyment, if a video starts begging for "like subscribe share" I just turn it off. I have no idea why people like watching other people begging impersonally for attention.

porcc 6y ago
Let me recommend a solution: https://sponsor.ajay.app/ https://sponsor.ajay.app/
- irrational 6y ago
  Wow! This is terrific!
- the_arun 6y ago
  Well, The UI, Logo etc., feels like my browser blocked me from going to sponsor.ajay.app url - insecure, evil site. I closed the browser window. But went there again to see what it says.
- citruscomputing 6y ago
  Been using this for a month or so - game changer. Can skip in-video advertisements, interaction reminders, introductions, (configurably) via a user-submitted and curated database.
capableweb 6y ago
> For actual enjoyment, if a video starts begging for "like subscribe share" I just turn it off. I have no idea why people like watching other people begging impersonally for attention. Same here. There are some YouTube channels I really want to watch and follow as I can learn new skills from them, but the constant begging and over-dramatization is a real turnoff so I cannot watch it without feeling bad about it. I have a similar feeling about people who takes photos of themselves all the time and their social feed is filled with the photos they take of themselves. I can't take a photo of myself without feeling vain, and I'm getting passive-vain feelings when I see friends of mine posting selfie after selfie of themselves...
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
Others 6y ago
The issue here is that YouTube (and other platforms) encourage this. It works, in that if you ask people to like comment and subscribe, they like comment and subscribe more. (And that boosts your standing within the system getting you more impressions.) Plenty of good creators do this (as it works), just to keep up with their peers. It really has nothing to do with the quality of the rest of their content. Don’t blame the player, blame the game IMO
- imglorp 6y ago
  Okay, I'll hate the game. The game has existed since the first radio ad spot in 1922, the first TV ad spot in 1941, and the first banner ad in 1994. I would far rather pay an honest few cents for a page view or a video roll than be subjected to in-content advertising and begging from the creators. Certainly, creators would prefer to do their thing instead of beg and scrape. What can we do to accelerate micropayment tech and patronage communities for creators?
  - pjc50 6y ago
    Surprisingly, tiktok is better at this: it surfaces new content to people based on factors other than existing popularity. > far rather pay an honest few cents for a page view or a video roll I don't think this holds true for most people. PPV TV has always been kind of a minor thing, and eclipsed now by all-you-can-stream services. The feeling of continually inserting coins, or the taxi meter running, is uncomfortable to many people.
    - mbreese 6y ago
      > PPV TV has always been kind of a minor thing This is true, but I think fails to be a good counter-example. PPV has always been expensive and focused on single events. What we haven’t seen is AWS style small payments. Imagine if instead of paying $100/mo for cable TV, we could pay $0.25/hr. If you watched TV 24x7, you’d pay more, but the vast majority of people would pay much less. The main problem with smaller amount PPV and micro transactions in general is that it is hard to get the billing/accounting right. But this is something that could vendors get right. You only pay for what you use, and what you get is billed in small enough increments that it makes sense for everyone involved. How this could be applied to online videos, I’m not sure.
z3ncyberpunk 6y ago
its not bizarre, its obvious and depressing that people beat around the bush about it. sex sells, a tale as old as time. im sick of people feigning ignorance to topics like this like some ditzy 50s era housewives trying to play suburban politics
rchaud 6y ago
Without a subscription, the visibility of their content is at the mercy of the algorithm. What choice do they have? It's no different from subscribing to someone's email list. It's annoying, but nobody bookmarks anything these days.
justapassenger 6y ago
It’s just how economic of YouTube works. If you don’t have likes, subscribes and views, you don’t make money. And if you want high quality content, it costs money. Lots of educational channels I watch do it, and I fully understand why they do it.
wnevets 6y ago
>For actual enjoyment, if a video starts begging for "like subscribe share" I just turn it off. I used to as well but realized platforms like YouTube effectively force the creators to do it.
robenkleene 6y ago
If you're curious why asking for subscribers is so prevalent, I recommend taking a look at this Twitter thread (https://twitter.com/stalman/status/1369082704138883073 https://twitter.com/stalman/status/1369082704138883073) that describes the before and after effects of asking for subscribers, here's a quote: "Just the subs that came directly from the video page were 5x what they are on similar size videos". I also recommend this blog post about the best way to ask for subscribers: https://reneritchie.net/how-to-get-subscribers-on-youtube-even-though-subscribers-dont-matter/ https://reneritchie.net/how-to-get-subscribers-on-youtube-ev... I've never done any of these things, and I'm not sure I have the stomach for it, but I consider it required knowledge for anyone with any interest in leveraging online attention.
- _jal 6y ago
  I completely understand the pressures that lead to people begging in videos. My point was simply that I find it unappealing pleasure viewing, so I don't understand wanting to watch them do it.
watwut 6y ago
> I have no idea why people like watching other people begging impersonally for attention. I am aware two things: 1.) If they earn money from youtube, they need likes and subscriptions so that youtube algoritm shows them to more people. 2.) I as a programmer earn more money with less effort then them. I also very likely have to deal with less bs (like harassments and jerks trying to insult you or take you down for lolz). A combination makes me accept that these people are doing entertainment as work, I consume that entertainment for free and thus am absolutely fine with them trying to succeed. There is also absolutely nothing wrong with entertainers wanting attention. That is what pays their bills, without attention they cant be successful. Attention is not dirty word to me.
- ziml77 6y ago
  This is a very reasonable way of looking at the situation and I completely agree with you. It's important to consider that producing content to put on YouTube is the primary source of income for some people. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.
thraway123412 6y ago
> For actual enjoyment, if a video starts begging for "like subscribe share" I just turn it off. I do too, but not without first hitting the dislike button. I only wish others would do the same.
- throwaway53453 6y ago
  Wow, so you're fine with hurting creators who just happen to be drowning in a competitive marketplace? People who don't say those words exist, but you won't find them very easily. There's a reason for that.
  - thraway123412 6y ago
    What do I owe them? Nagging and soliciting subs and likes is fucking annoying. If you want me to like a video, make a good video and stop nagging. If I dislike those naggers enough, maybe Google's stupid artificial non-intelligence will eventually learn to recommend only videos from non-naggers. I try, even though I don't have much faith in Google's algorithms.
    - throwaway53453 6y ago
      This is nothing to do with "Google's algorithms". The simple fact is, people do not subscribe without being prompted to. The reason all the top YT'ers are annoying about it, is precisely why they are successful. Things work like that in the real world, too.
      - thraway123412 6y ago
        Yes, I know exactly why these annoying naggers are being annoying. I don't like it. And here I'm telling that maybe people should stop listening to annoying naggers and just dislike & close the tab, maybe block the channel too if it keeps coming up in recommends.
- wruza 6y ago
  Btw, it is not clear whether a dislike drowns the content – people believe it’s inverse, and you’re helping. Best you can do to counteract is closing a tab.
creamynebula 6y ago
Marketing teaches us that this works, they call it a CTA - Call To Action, asking people to do what you want them to works...
- wruza 6y ago
  Youtube could simply inverse that and make their “don’t recommend channel” actually fucking work. Then people would just unsubscribe from what is not needed periodically and watch a feed full of what they actually like automagically. But of course it is much easier to leave creators on their own and profit from those who survive, while doing your job with a left heel. Youtube doesn’t deserve a penny from these hardworking guys.
JSavageOne 6y ago
I don't understand it either. If there are 2 channels with otherwise comparable quality and 1 begs me for likes/subs, I'll watch the other one
fl0wenol 6y ago
For me it's when they do that faux: "hey guys, I was looking at my metrics and <insert percentage here>% of you who viewed the last X videos aren't subscribed, so it would be really great if you hit that bell" I mean really? Do creators realize that viewers could be interested in several dozen channels and don't want to swamp out their own notifications since Youtube's prioritization gets shittier the more you subscribe to? Sorry you aren't in my top 10? Maybe a video got popular on an algorithmic whim... I'd much rather they ask me to join a Patreon, which I am very keen to do if the content is good and continues to do so. But pulling that "peek behind the creator curtain" crap puts me very off because it's like trying to shame you into behaving differently as if you're part of the problem. No... you decided to make Youtube your source of income. I don't owe you crap.
- wruza 6y ago
  Sometimes content is good and I feel I owe them crap. But exactly! Youtube recommendation system is so cretinous and only gets worse that sometimes I end up adding videos to a special playlist that I can consult later and check a channel without subscribing. Clicking something state-changing on youtube as a viewer is like eating a trash food that seems tasty, but you’ll regret that later. It’s actually a problem with all “favorites” on every platform. A browser bookmark system with notifications (a little dot) would be great, because then you can sort/categorize/describe/thimbnail/speeddial it, but platforms crave for stupidity and make it a non-configurable list instead.

by _jal 6y ago

porcc 6y ago

Let me recommend a solution: https://sponsor.ajay.app/ https://sponsor.ajay.app/

irrational 6y ago
Wow! This is terrific!
the_arun 6y ago
Well, The UI, Logo etc., feels like my browser blocked me from going to sponsor.ajay.app url - insecure, evil site. I closed the browser window. But went there again to see what it says.
citruscomputing 6y ago
Been using this for a month or so - game changer. Can skip in-video advertisements, interaction reminders, introductions, (configurably) via a user-submitted and curated database.

capableweb 6y ago

> For actual enjoyment, if a video starts begging for "like subscribe share" I just turn it off. I have no idea why people like watching other people begging impersonally for attention. Same here. There are some YouTube channels I really want to watch and follow as I can learn new skills from them, but the constant begging and over-dramatization is a real turnoff so I cannot watch it without feeling bad about it. I have a similar feeling about people who takes photos of themselves all the time and their social feed is filled with the photos they take of themselves. I can't take a photo of myself without feeling vain, and I'm getting passive-vain feelings when I see friends of mine posting selfie after selfie of themselves...

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

Others 6y ago

The issue here is that YouTube (and other platforms) encourage this. It works, in that if you ask people to like comment and subscribe, they like comment and subscribe more. (And that boosts your standing within the system getting you more impressions.) Plenty of good creators do this (as it works), just to keep up with their peers. It really has nothing to do with the quality of the rest of their content. Don’t blame the player, blame the game IMO

imglorp 6y ago
Okay, I'll hate the game. The game has existed since the first radio ad spot in 1922, the first TV ad spot in 1941, and the first banner ad in 1994. I would far rather pay an honest few cents for a page view or a video roll than be subjected to in-content advertising and begging from the creators. Certainly, creators would prefer to do their thing instead of beg and scrape. What can we do to accelerate micropayment tech and patronage communities for creators?
- pjc50 6y ago
  Surprisingly, tiktok is better at this: it surfaces new content to people based on factors other than existing popularity. > far rather pay an honest few cents for a page view or a video roll I don't think this holds true for most people. PPV TV has always been kind of a minor thing, and eclipsed now by all-you-can-stream services. The feeling of continually inserting coins, or the taxi meter running, is uncomfortable to many people.
  - mbreese 6y ago
    > PPV TV has always been kind of a minor thing This is true, but I think fails to be a good counter-example. PPV has always been expensive and focused on single events. What we haven’t seen is AWS style small payments. Imagine if instead of paying $100/mo for cable TV, we could pay $0.25/hr. If you watched TV 24x7, you’d pay more, but the vast majority of people would pay much less. The main problem with smaller amount PPV and micro transactions in general is that it is hard to get the billing/accounting right. But this is something that could vendors get right. You only pay for what you use, and what you get is billed in small enough increments that it makes sense for everyone involved. How this could be applied to online videos, I’m not sure.

z3ncyberpunk 6y ago

its not bizarre, its obvious and depressing that people beat around the bush about it. sex sells, a tale as old as time. im sick of people feigning ignorance to topics like this like some ditzy 50s era housewives trying to play suburban politics

rchaud 6y ago

Without a subscription, the visibility of their content is at the mercy of the algorithm. What choice do they have? It's no different from subscribing to someone's email list. It's annoying, but nobody bookmarks anything these days.

justapassenger 6y ago

It’s just how economic of YouTube works. If you don’t have likes, subscribes and views, you don’t make money. And if you want high quality content, it costs money. Lots of educational channels I watch do it, and I fully understand why they do it.

wnevets 6y ago

>For actual enjoyment, if a video starts begging for "like subscribe share" I just turn it off. I used to as well but realized platforms like YouTube effectively force the creators to do it.

robenkleene 6y ago

If you're curious why asking for subscribers is so prevalent, I recommend taking a look at this Twitter thread (https://twitter.com/stalman/status/1369082704138883073 https://twitter.com/stalman/status/1369082704138883073) that describes the before and after effects of asking for subscribers, here's a quote: "Just the subs that came directly from the video page were 5x what they are on similar size videos". I also recommend this blog post about the best way to ask for subscribers: https://reneritchie.net/how-to-get-subscribers-on-youtube-even-though-subscribers-dont-matter/ https://reneritchie.net/how-to-get-subscribers-on-youtube-ev... I've never done any of these things, and I'm not sure I have the stomach for it, but I consider it required knowledge for anyone with any interest in leveraging online attention.

_jal 6y ago
I completely understand the pressures that lead to people begging in videos. My point was simply that I find it unappealing pleasure viewing, so I don't understand wanting to watch them do it.

watwut 6y ago

> I have no idea why people like watching other people begging impersonally for attention. I am aware two things: 1.) If they earn money from youtube, they need likes and subscriptions so that youtube algoritm shows them to more people. 2.) I as a programmer earn more money with less effort then them. I also very likely have to deal with less bs (like harassments and jerks trying to insult you or take you down for lolz). A combination makes me accept that these people are doing entertainment as work, I consume that entertainment for free and thus am absolutely fine with them trying to succeed. There is also absolutely nothing wrong with entertainers wanting attention. That is what pays their bills, without attention they cant be successful. Attention is not dirty word to me.

ziml77 6y ago
This is a very reasonable way of looking at the situation and I completely agree with you. It's important to consider that producing content to put on YouTube is the primary source of income for some people. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

thraway123412 6y ago

> For actual enjoyment, if a video starts begging for "like subscribe share" I just turn it off. I do too, but not without first hitting the dislike button. I only wish others would do the same.

throwaway53453 6y ago
Wow, so you're fine with hurting creators who just happen to be drowning in a competitive marketplace? People who don't say those words exist, but you won't find them very easily. There's a reason for that.
- thraway123412 6y ago
  What do I owe them? Nagging and soliciting subs and likes is fucking annoying. If you want me to like a video, make a good video and stop nagging. If I dislike those naggers enough, maybe Google's stupid artificial non-intelligence will eventually learn to recommend only videos from non-naggers. I try, even though I don't have much faith in Google's algorithms.
  - throwaway53453 6y ago
    This is nothing to do with "Google's algorithms". The simple fact is, people do not subscribe without being prompted to. The reason all the top YT'ers are annoying about it, is precisely why they are successful. Things work like that in the real world, too.
    - thraway123412 6y ago
      Yes, I know exactly why these annoying naggers are being annoying. I don't like it. And here I'm telling that maybe people should stop listening to annoying naggers and just dislike & close the tab, maybe block the channel too if it keeps coming up in recommends.
wruza 6y ago
Btw, it is not clear whether a dislike drowns the content – people believe it’s inverse, and you’re helping. Best you can do to counteract is closing a tab.

creamynebula 6y ago

Marketing teaches us that this works, they call it a CTA - Call To Action, asking people to do what you want them to works...

wruza 6y ago
Youtube could simply inverse that and make their “don’t recommend channel” actually fucking work. Then people would just unsubscribe from what is not needed periodically and watch a feed full of what they actually like automagically. But of course it is much easier to leave creators on their own and profit from those who survive, while doing your job with a left heel. Youtube doesn’t deserve a penny from these hardworking guys.

JSavageOne 6y ago

I don't understand it either. If there are 2 channels with otherwise comparable quality and 1 begs me for likes/subs, I'll watch the other one

fl0wenol 6y ago

For me it's when they do that faux: "hey guys, I was looking at my metrics and <insert percentage here>% of you who viewed the last X videos aren't subscribed, so it would be really great if you hit that bell" I mean really? Do creators realize that viewers could be interested in several dozen channels and don't want to swamp out their own notifications since Youtube's prioritization gets shittier the more you subscribe to? Sorry you aren't in my top 10? Maybe a video got popular on an algorithmic whim... I'd much rather they ask me to join a Patreon, which I am very keen to do if the content is good and continues to do so. But pulling that "peek behind the creator curtain" crap puts me very off because it's like trying to shame you into behaving differently as if you're part of the problem. No... you decided to make Youtube your source of income. I don't owe you crap.

wruza 6y ago
Sometimes content is good and I feel I owe them crap. But exactly! Youtube recommendation system is so cretinous and only gets worse that sometimes I end up adding videos to a special playlist that I can consult later and check a channel without subscribing. Clicking something state-changing on youtube as a viewer is like eating a trash food that seems tasty, but you’ll regret that later. It’s actually a problem with all “favorites” on every platform. A browser bookmark system with notifications (a little dot) would be great, because then you can sort/categorize/describe/thimbnail/speeddial it, but platforms crave for stupidity and make it a non-configurable list instead.