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> On June 6, 2020, Rowling retweeted an op-ed piece that discussed “people who menstruate,” apparently taking issue with the fact that the story did not use the

> On June 6, 2020, Rowling retweeted an op-ed piece that discussed “people who menstruate,” apparently taking issue with the fact that the story did not use the word women. “‘People who menstruate.’ I’m sure there used to be a word for those people. Someone help me out. Wumben? Wimpund? Woomud? I'm still not convinced this is anti-trans. I mean it's reality so for people to want to cancel her over this is ridiculous (which sums up the woke-ideology pretty much).

troutwine 6y ago
This pulled quote, in isolation, might not be, sure. The question about this particular complaint is whether its meant exclusively or inclusively. Does a woman who has stopped menstruating stop being a woman? Is a woman who has never menstruated and never will, in fact, not a woman? What if these people feel in their person like women? How one reads Rowling's comment in light of these questions informs one's sense of her intent. If you read Rowling's comment inclusively then it's a clumsy, ambiguous complaint about shifting language norms that is harmless and warrants a clarification. If you read the comment exclusively -- which I think is fair given Rowling's other statements over the years -- then I find it hard to read in a charitable light. It is, I admit, entirely possible that Rowling doesn't hold trans-exclusionary views and has merely, accidentally chosen ambiguous wording over the years and is pig-headed enough to be unwilling to clarify but I do find this _unlikely_ considering that she's a famously clear author who is willing to clarify (and extend) her body of work for years after the fact.
- CodeGlitch 6y ago
  > Does a woman who has stopped menstruating stop being a woman? Equally does a man who wears women's clothes make them a woman? I'm happy for them to call themselves a trans-woman, and "she", but we have to have language that separates the sexes at the biological level. > What if these people feel in their person like women? The word "feel" in this context is extremely woolly. This is how we have gotten ourselves into this ridiculous situation where no-one can agree on anything to do with gender / sexes. > If you read Rowling's comment inclusively then it's a clumsy, ambiguous complaint about shifting language norms that is harmless and warrants a clarification. If you read the comment exclusively -- which I think is fair given Rowling's other statements over the years -- then I find it hard to read in a charitable light. It is, I admit, entirely possible that Rowling doesn't hold trans-exclusionary views and has merely, accidentally chosen ambiguous wording over the years and is pig-headed enough to be unwilling to clarify but I do find this _unlikely_ considering that she's a famously clear author who is willing to clarify (and extend) her body of work for years after the fact. So you might be partly right on this - but given her contribution to literacy and the arts and woman's rights we know she is a thoughtful, intelligent, compassionate person. Given all her positive contributions to society the hostile reaction from the trans-side is telling really.
- nec4b 6y ago
  Do you know of any other group of people who are menstruating and are not women?
  - pseudalopex 6y ago
    Some trans men and non binary people. And many women don't menstruate.
    - nec4b 6y ago
      >Some trans men and non binary people. Those are biological females (women). >And many women don't menstruate. What is your point here?
      - pseudalopex 6y ago
        Woman most commonly refers to gender. Very few people know the sex of most people they meet. The point is women isn't a synonym for people who menstruate even if you ignore trans people. What sort of answer to your original question did you expect?
        CodeGlitch 6y ago
        > Very few people know the sex of most people they meet. This is false. > The point is women isn't a synonym for people who menstruate even if you ignore trans people. It was until it was high jacked.
        nec4b 6y ago
        >Woman most commonly refers to gender. Very few people know the sex of most people they meet. If one would do a general survey, most ordinary people would consider sex and gender the same thing. Most of them would also say that they know the sex of somebody they see for the first time. Which is statistically true, because people whose sex and gender don't match are truly a small minority. >The point is women isn't a synonym for people who menstruate even if you ignore trans people. For the pedantic I guess she should have said: women who are in their fertile age without health problems or taking medications which prevent menstruation. >What sort of answer to your original question did you expect? A possible medical breakthrough.

troutwine 6y ago

This pulled quote, in isolation, might not be, sure. The question about this particular complaint is whether its meant exclusively or inclusively. Does a woman who has stopped menstruating stop being a woman? Is a woman who has never menstruated and never will, in fact, not a woman? What if these people feel in their person like women? How one reads Rowling's comment in light of these questions informs one's sense of her intent. If you read Rowling's comment inclusively then it's a clumsy, ambiguous complaint about shifting language norms that is harmless and warrants a clarification. If you read the comment exclusively -- which I think is fair given Rowling's other statements over the years -- then I find it hard to read in a charitable light. It is, I admit, entirely possible that Rowling doesn't hold trans-exclusionary views and has merely, accidentally chosen ambiguous wording over the years and is pig-headed enough to be unwilling to clarify but I do find this _unlikely_ considering that she's a famously clear author who is willing to clarify (and extend) her body of work for years after the fact.

CodeGlitch 6y ago
> Does a woman who has stopped menstruating stop being a woman? Equally does a man who wears women's clothes make them a woman? I'm happy for them to call themselves a trans-woman, and "she", but we have to have language that separates the sexes at the biological level. > What if these people feel in their person like women? The word "feel" in this context is extremely woolly. This is how we have gotten ourselves into this ridiculous situation where no-one can agree on anything to do with gender / sexes. > If you read Rowling's comment inclusively then it's a clumsy, ambiguous complaint about shifting language norms that is harmless and warrants a clarification. If you read the comment exclusively -- which I think is fair given Rowling's other statements over the years -- then I find it hard to read in a charitable light. It is, I admit, entirely possible that Rowling doesn't hold trans-exclusionary views and has merely, accidentally chosen ambiguous wording over the years and is pig-headed enough to be unwilling to clarify but I do find this _unlikely_ considering that she's a famously clear author who is willing to clarify (and extend) her body of work for years after the fact. So you might be partly right on this - but given her contribution to literacy and the arts and woman's rights we know she is a thoughtful, intelligent, compassionate person. Given all her positive contributions to society the hostile reaction from the trans-side is telling really.
nec4b 6y ago
Do you know of any other group of people who are menstruating and are not women?
- pseudalopex 6y ago
  Some trans men and non binary people. And many women don't menstruate.
  - nec4b 6y ago
    >Some trans men and non binary people. Those are biological females (women). >And many women don't menstruate. What is your point here?
    - pseudalopex 6y ago
      Woman most commonly refers to gender. Very few people know the sex of most people they meet. The point is women isn't a synonym for people who menstruate even if you ignore trans people. What sort of answer to your original question did you expect?
      - CodeGlitch 6y ago
        > Very few people know the sex of most people they meet. This is false. > The point is women isn't a synonym for people who menstruate even if you ignore trans people. It was until it was high jacked.
      - nec4b 6y ago
        >Woman most commonly refers to gender. Very few people know the sex of most people they meet. If one would do a general survey, most ordinary people would consider sex and gender the same thing. Most of them would also say that they know the sex of somebody they see for the first time. Which is statistically true, because people whose sex and gender don't match are truly a small minority. >The point is women isn't a synonym for people who menstruate even if you ignore trans people. For the pedantic I guess she should have said: women who are in their fertile age without health problems or taking medications which prevent menstruation. >What sort of answer to your original question did you expect? A possible medical breakthrough.