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What exactly do you mean by making "tough decisions", "fight for the market" and "make itself extremely appealing"? I've just re-read both of you messages in th

What exactly do you mean by making "tough decisions", "fight for the market" and "make itself extremely appealing"? I've just re-read both of you messages in this thread and didn't find any single specific technical suggestion.

pron 6y ago
That's because I don't know how to do that, and it might not be purely technical. But what Rust is doing doesn't seem to be working. Six years since 1.0 and almost unheard-of levels of hype, market penetration isn't even at 0.1%. It's a language with Python-level coverage and Elixir-level adoption.
- caskstrength 6y ago
  Well, yes, of course. Rust is not made by Apple, MS or Google who can just make it new "official" language on their platform and force adoption. Also, by its very nature (low-level-ish language without GC) it cannot have Python-level adoption in modern software development ecosystem. Why would you want Rust to target lowest-common-denominator developers and become new VB or php? All it needs is enough momentum to become self-sufficient, which seems to be actually happening now with Rust Foundation and news of its usage in some major companies that can set the trends for whole industry (Amazon, Google, etc.).
  - wealthyyy 6y ago
    > Why would you want Rust to target lowest-common-denominator developers and become new VB or php? Rust wants not that I wants. It seems people replacing NodeJS with it.
- howinteresting 6y ago
  https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2020#technology-programming-scripting-and-markup-languages-professional-developers https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2020#technology-pr... says that 4.8% of professional developers are using Rust. From the perspective of someone who's been writing Rust professionally for the last few years, the hockey-stick curve started kicking in in late 2020 or so.
  - pron 6y ago
    Not at work. The sum of those numbers is 500%, and the average developer does not use five of those languages at work (If anyone does).
    - howinteresting 6y ago
      Well, do you have evidence to support your claim that penetration is <0.1%? My impression is that it's simply not true now that most (if not all) of the FAANGs have many developers using it.
      - pron 6y ago
        It's from a November 2019 report by Indeed of 0.1% of job postings mentioning Rust (https://www.hiringlab.org/2019/11/19/todays-top-tech-skills/ https://www.hiringlab.org/2019/11/19/todays-top-tech-skills/), with growth of 44% compared to 2018 (https://www.hiringlab.org/2019/11/26/fastest-rising-tech-skills/ https://www.hiringlab.org/2019/11/26/fastest-rising-tech-ski...). But you can even have a rough estimate according to your own measure. There are roughly between 50K and 100K developers working at FAANG (maybe replace Netflix with Microsoft). How many of them would you guess are using Rust?

pron 6y ago

That's because I don't know how to do that, and it might not be purely technical. But what Rust is doing doesn't seem to be working. Six years since 1.0 and almost unheard-of levels of hype, market penetration isn't even at 0.1%. It's a language with Python-level coverage and Elixir-level adoption.

caskstrength 6y ago
Well, yes, of course. Rust is not made by Apple, MS or Google who can just make it new "official" language on their platform and force adoption. Also, by its very nature (low-level-ish language without GC) it cannot have Python-level adoption in modern software development ecosystem. Why would you want Rust to target lowest-common-denominator developers and become new VB or php? All it needs is enough momentum to become self-sufficient, which seems to be actually happening now with Rust Foundation and news of its usage in some major companies that can set the trends for whole industry (Amazon, Google, etc.).
- wealthyyy 6y ago
  > Why would you want Rust to target lowest-common-denominator developers and become new VB or php? Rust wants not that I wants. It seems people replacing NodeJS with it.
howinteresting 6y ago
https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2020#technology-programming-scripting-and-markup-languages-professional-developers https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2020#technology-pr... says that 4.8% of professional developers are using Rust. From the perspective of someone who's been writing Rust professionally for the last few years, the hockey-stick curve started kicking in in late 2020 or so.
- pron 6y ago
  Not at work. The sum of those numbers is 500%, and the average developer does not use five of those languages at work (If anyone does).
  - howinteresting 6y ago
    Well, do you have evidence to support your claim that penetration is <0.1%? My impression is that it's simply not true now that most (if not all) of the FAANGs have many developers using it.
    - pron 6y ago
      It's from a November 2019 report by Indeed of 0.1% of job postings mentioning Rust (https://www.hiringlab.org/2019/11/19/todays-top-tech-skills/ https://www.hiringlab.org/2019/11/19/todays-top-tech-skills/), with growth of 44% compared to 2018 (https://www.hiringlab.org/2019/11/26/fastest-rising-tech-skills/ https://www.hiringlab.org/2019/11/26/fastest-rising-tech-ski...). But you can even have a rough estimate according to your own measure. There are roughly between 50K and 100K developers working at FAANG (maybe replace Netflix with Microsoft). How many of them would you guess are using Rust?