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I see that we should "cast a wide net" by reading 3 noted anti-leftists. Who is your favorite author that identifies as a progressive?

by cozuya 6y ago

nkurz 6y ago
It's a wider net relative to reading only the mainstream US press (defined here as centered around NPR/CNN/NYT). Also, all of those strongly identify as leftists, just of a different strain than is currently dominant in the US media and Democratic party. Combining them with the mainstream, I feel like my real lack here is reliable conservative voices. I'm lacking good progressive voices that I trust. Rather, I trust many of them to give me a sense of where the Democratic party in the US is heading, but not to reliably report the strengths and weaknesses of their position. Freddie Deboer might be the closest that I come, and while he's arguably very progressive, he's not typical. Any suggestions? Edit: For non-media bloggers who touch on social issues, I'd suggest Andrew Gelman and Scott Aaronson as being good progressive voices. For media, I should have added Matt Taibbi, but he may also be in the very liberal but not-exactly-progressive camp.
- cozuya 6y ago
  "all of those strongly identify as leftists" is telling. They are not leftists. Greenwald, in particular, who shows up on Fox News on a regular basis to attack leftists, is by far the most anti-leftist of any of the 6 names you've mentioned, but none of them will give you actual progressive views. None of these people will espouse things like raising the minimum wage, reducing our out of control military budget, or god forbid, universal healthcare for Americans. This is what modern progressives want and where the Democratic party is heading, eventually. No one cares about "cancel culture" or "SJWs" like you'll constantly read about with this list.
  - nkurz 6y ago
    > None of these people will espouse things like raising the minimum wage, reducing our out of control military budget, or god forbid, universal healthcare for Americans. Odd, I have completely the opposite impression. I support all of these things, and I would have guessed that all 7 people I named each support at least one and often all of these. I'd put them more on the losing Sanders side of the Democratic party, which I think has more support for the things you list than the currently dominant and more centrist Biden side. By contrast, I'd say it's the NPR/CNN/NYT voice that does not particularly support the things you list, at least not to the same extent. I could go through and try to pick out quotes to support this, but this probably wouldn't be persuasive. Instead, perhaps you could suggest some people that I should add to my reading list? I've given quite a few names that I think provide a useful contrast to the mainstream US media. Who else should I be reading to get a more complete picture? What are the trustworthy progressive sources, with "trustworthy" being defined as prioritizing things they believe are true over strategic communication?
    - dragonwriter 6y ago
      > I’d put them more on the losing Sanders side of the Democratic party The progressive side of the party is not dominant but clearly ascendant over the last several years, and Greenwald’s attacks on the party have become more intense the more the progressive side has become more ascendant. Greenwald may have once been a progressive, but what he has clearly since become is simply an anti-Democrat whose entire schtick is performative leftism to try to drive a wedge between progressives and the Democratic Party.
    - cozuya 6y ago
      I would say that instead of me suggesting "voices" to listen to, you would be much better served by not paying attention to any of the above. Especially Greenwald.
    - Malician 6y ago
      I enjoy https://crookedtimber.org/ https://crookedtimber.org/! It's indirect and all over the place, but it's opinion from people of a bit of a different political bent. Doesn't feel like the NYT / Daily show style propaganda, is in fact actually progressive made by people with minds and voices
  - ecshafer 6y ago
    I think you are misidentifying "leftist". Progressives != Leftists. Many progressives may be leftists, but most are rather centrist politically. A leftist is someone that is against capital/capitalism. Whether this is through support of communism, heavy regulation of capitalism, support of mutualism or co-operatives, etc.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > Also, all of those strongly identify as leftists, just of a different strain than is currently dominant in the US media and Democratic party Matt Yglesias is, AFAICT—and while I kinda burned out on him fairly early in his blogging career I read him heavily then and occasionally since and this doesn't seem to have changed—a center-right figure of almost exactly the sort dominant in the Democratic Party. He sometimes has fairly intense disagreements on particular points with dominant figures, but he doesn't seem to be particularly to their left.

I see that we should "cast a wide net" by reading 3 noted anti-leftists. Who is your favorite author that identifies as a progressive?

by cozuya 6y ago

I see that we should "cast a wide net" by reading 3 noted anti-leftists. Who is your favorite author that identifies as a progressive?

nkurz 6y ago

It's a wider net relative to reading only the mainstream US press (defined here as centered around NPR/CNN/NYT). Also, all of those strongly identify as leftists, just of a different strain than is currently dominant in the US media and Democratic party. Combining them with the mainstream, I feel like my real lack here is reliable conservative voices. I'm lacking good progressive voices that I trust. Rather, I trust many of them to give me a sense of where the Democratic party in the US is heading, but not to reliably report the strengths and weaknesses of their position. Freddie Deboer might be the closest that I come, and while he's arguably very progressive, he's not typical. Any suggestions? Edit: For non-media bloggers who touch on social issues, I'd suggest Andrew Gelman and Scott Aaronson as being good progressive voices. For media, I should have added Matt Taibbi, but he may also be in the very liberal but not-exactly-progressive camp.

cozuya 6y ago
"all of those strongly identify as leftists" is telling. They are not leftists. Greenwald, in particular, who shows up on Fox News on a regular basis to attack leftists, is by far the most anti-leftist of any of the 6 names you've mentioned, but none of them will give you actual progressive views. None of these people will espouse things like raising the minimum wage, reducing our out of control military budget, or god forbid, universal healthcare for Americans. This is what modern progressives want and where the Democratic party is heading, eventually. No one cares about "cancel culture" or "SJWs" like you'll constantly read about with this list.
- nkurz 6y ago
  > None of these people will espouse things like raising the minimum wage, reducing our out of control military budget, or god forbid, universal healthcare for Americans. Odd, I have completely the opposite impression. I support all of these things, and I would have guessed that all 7 people I named each support at least one and often all of these. I'd put them more on the losing Sanders side of the Democratic party, which I think has more support for the things you list than the currently dominant and more centrist Biden side. By contrast, I'd say it's the NPR/CNN/NYT voice that does not particularly support the things you list, at least not to the same extent. I could go through and try to pick out quotes to support this, but this probably wouldn't be persuasive. Instead, perhaps you could suggest some people that I should add to my reading list? I've given quite a few names that I think provide a useful contrast to the mainstream US media. Who else should I be reading to get a more complete picture? What are the trustworthy progressive sources, with "trustworthy" being defined as prioritizing things they believe are true over strategic communication?
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    > I’d put them more on the losing Sanders side of the Democratic party The progressive side of the party is not dominant but clearly ascendant over the last several years, and Greenwald’s attacks on the party have become more intense the more the progressive side has become more ascendant. Greenwald may have once been a progressive, but what he has clearly since become is simply an anti-Democrat whose entire schtick is performative leftism to try to drive a wedge between progressives and the Democratic Party.
  - cozuya 6y ago
    I would say that instead of me suggesting "voices" to listen to, you would be much better served by not paying attention to any of the above. Especially Greenwald.
  - Malician 6y ago
    I enjoy https://crookedtimber.org/ https://crookedtimber.org/! It's indirect and all over the place, but it's opinion from people of a bit of a different political bent. Doesn't feel like the NYT / Daily show style propaganda, is in fact actually progressive made by people with minds and voices
- ecshafer 6y ago
  I think you are misidentifying "leftist". Progressives != Leftists. Many progressives may be leftists, but most are rather centrist politically. A leftist is someone that is against capital/capitalism. Whether this is through support of communism, heavy regulation of capitalism, support of mutualism or co-operatives, etc.
dragonwriter 6y ago
> Also, all of those strongly identify as leftists, just of a different strain than is currently dominant in the US media and Democratic party Matt Yglesias is, AFAICT—and while I kinda burned out on him fairly early in his blogging career I read him heavily then and occasionally since and this doesn't seem to have changed—a center-right figure of almost exactly the sort dominant in the Democratic Party. He sometimes has fairly intense disagreements on particular points with dominant figures, but he doesn't seem to be particularly to their left.