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I wonder what they actually "do" for 95 hours a week. There is no way it can be productive work for all that time over such long periods.

by axlee 6y ago

WJW 6y ago
Reading through 300-page contracts and the like, then making a powerpoint representation of it.
DelightOne 6y ago
If most is productive work then I imagine its a hell of an education. May give you burnout tough, best only for a short time.
- RankingMember 6y ago
  "May give you burnout" hahaha. I can recall multiple studies finding that working more than 50 hours a week sees a severe drop-off in productivity. Here's an article about one: https://www.cnbc.com/2015/01/26/working-more-than-50-hours-makes-you-less-productive.html https://www.cnbc.com/2015/01/26/working-more-than-50-hours-m...
TuringNYC 6y ago
Since they mention "junior bankers", i'd say most of it is: - re-formatting presentations decks - re-formatting booklets - checking numbers - being available The first two to three episodes of HBO's Industry (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industry_(TV_series) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industry_(TV_series)) reflects this well, and darkly. It is also fairly accurate w/r/t what my banker friends experienced.
- blaser-waffle 6y ago
  Spot on. According to family who worked in finance: the reformatting has to do with any errors. If there is one small error, somewhere, then how do you know there aren't more? These banks are making million or billion dollar transactions, so a small rounding error can cost fantastic amounts of money. So start from square one and do it over, and make sure it's right. Additionally, they need a lot of collateral. Appendices of research, citations, crunching other numbers -- most of which will never be looked it. But if the customer does want to see them, they have them, they know they're right, and they're able to answer any questions johnny-on-the-spot style. Again, with billion-dollar deals at stake, you'll do the due diligence, even if it means no one will ever read that info -- the "just in case they ask" risk is high enough to justify it. That all translates into long, grinding hours for documents that no one may ever read.
  - ForHackernews 6y ago
    Really surprised they can't automate that shit. It sounds like they need linters for their documents. I certainly would trust a well-tested piece of software to get the numbers right sooner than I'd trust a gaggle of overpaid sleep-deprived 22 year-old Princeton grads.
    - TuringNYC 6y ago
      Each company's analysis is a DAG of sorts with assumptions, each assumption based on other assumptions, and all of those based on tables of estimates and projections. That makes it all somewhat unique, at least beyond the industry level. Further, it is not like there are numerous IPOs, its not really done enough times to automate. Finally, there is a hazing and rite-of-passage component to all this. And it is paid very well, with even better prospects after the job, so people accept it.
mason55 6y ago
If you're interested in what investment bankers do in a 95-hour week then check out the book "Barbarians at the Gate." Events took place in 1988 so you don't have things like PowerPoint but there are a lot of good examples of how it becomes "necessary" to put in so many hours. "Necessary" in quotes because it's not a matter of life or death but it really does become required to win the deal. With the amount of money involved in these deals it becomes ultra-competitive and more hours pretty directly translates to a better chance of winning the deal. Especially once you have short deadlines that are intended to get everyone to come forward with their best & final offer, you might just have one weekend to put together a whole pitchbook + all the deal terms to try to win the business. Because the hours worked translate so directly into increased chances of winning the deal, it really does become a prisoners dilemma amongst all the firms. If they could all stick to 40 hour weeks then no one would have an advantage based on hours worked, but all it takes it one firm to defect and it's game over, welcome back to 100 hour weeks.

I wonder what they actually "do" for 95 hours a week. There is no way it can be productive work for all that time over such long periods.

by axlee 6y ago

I wonder what they actually "do" for 95 hours a week. There is no way it can be productive work for all that time over such long periods.

WJW 6y ago

Reading through 300-page contracts and the like, then making a powerpoint representation of it.

DelightOne 6y ago

If most is productive work then I imagine its a hell of an education. May give you burnout tough, best only for a short time.

RankingMember 6y ago
"May give you burnout" hahaha. I can recall multiple studies finding that working more than 50 hours a week sees a severe drop-off in productivity. Here's an article about one: https://www.cnbc.com/2015/01/26/working-more-than-50-hours-makes-you-less-productive.html https://www.cnbc.com/2015/01/26/working-more-than-50-hours-m...

TuringNYC 6y ago

Since they mention "junior bankers", i'd say most of it is: - re-formatting presentations decks - re-formatting booklets - checking numbers - being available The first two to three episodes of HBO's Industry (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industry_(TV_series) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industry_(TV_series)) reflects this well, and darkly. It is also fairly accurate w/r/t what my banker friends experienced.

blaser-waffle 6y ago
Spot on. According to family who worked in finance: the reformatting has to do with any errors. If there is one small error, somewhere, then how do you know there aren't more? These banks are making million or billion dollar transactions, so a small rounding error can cost fantastic amounts of money. So start from square one and do it over, and make sure it's right. Additionally, they need a lot of collateral. Appendices of research, citations, crunching other numbers -- most of which will never be looked it. But if the customer does want to see them, they have them, they know they're right, and they're able to answer any questions johnny-on-the-spot style. Again, with billion-dollar deals at stake, you'll do the due diligence, even if it means no one will ever read that info -- the "just in case they ask" risk is high enough to justify it. That all translates into long, grinding hours for documents that no one may ever read.
- ForHackernews 6y ago
  Really surprised they can't automate that shit. It sounds like they need linters for their documents. I certainly would trust a well-tested piece of software to get the numbers right sooner than I'd trust a gaggle of overpaid sleep-deprived 22 year-old Princeton grads.
  - TuringNYC 6y ago
    Each company's analysis is a DAG of sorts with assumptions, each assumption based on other assumptions, and all of those based on tables of estimates and projections. That makes it all somewhat unique, at least beyond the industry level. Further, it is not like there are numerous IPOs, its not really done enough times to automate. Finally, there is a hazing and rite-of-passage component to all this. And it is paid very well, with even better prospects after the job, so people accept it.

mason55 6y ago

If you're interested in what investment bankers do in a 95-hour week then check out the book "Barbarians at the Gate." Events took place in 1988 so you don't have things like PowerPoint but there are a lot of good examples of how it becomes "necessary" to put in so many hours. "Necessary" in quotes because it's not a matter of life or death but it really does become required to win the deal. With the amount of money involved in these deals it becomes ultra-competitive and more hours pretty directly translates to a better chance of winning the deal. Especially once you have short deadlines that are intended to get everyone to come forward with their best & final offer, you might just have one weekend to put together a whole pitchbook + all the deal terms to try to win the business. Because the hours worked translate so directly into increased chances of winning the deal, it really does become a prisoners dilemma amongst all the firms. If they could all stick to 40 hour weeks then no one would have an advantage based on hours worked, but all it takes it one firm to defect and it's game over, welcome back to 100 hour weeks.