4 ms·

Plenty of it by our own government and allies as well. Maybe we can be a little more principled than "good guy nations" and "bad guy nations" if the goal is tr

Plenty of it by our own government and allies as well. Maybe we can be a little more principled than "good guy nations" and "bad guy nations" if the goal is truth?

loceng 6y ago
Who's truth is more truthful, who's lies are more harmful/helpful?
- taf2 6y ago
  "Seriously because the aliens are already here and I have proof!" -- Joking aside sometimes pushing a truth whether it's true or not has an impact on inflaming conspiracy theories... Youtube's covid, election banners for example IMO did more to incite deep state conspiracy then to reduce it... "One often meets their fate on the path they take to avoid it..." - Kung Fu panda
  - loceng 6y ago
    YouTube's blanket ban was a problem absolutely - it was lazy and as hands-off as possible missing all nuance.
    - thereddaikon 6y ago
      Classic Google, when nuance and reason are required they instead program a dumb bot to handle it.
- refenestrator 6y ago
  I was struck by the Chinese embassy that got banned a couple months ago. They said that their fight against radical islam is good for uighur women.. which is propaganda but also the exact same propaganda that western interventionists use all the time. One is ok, the other is not.
  - vorpalhex 6y ago
    Well it probably helps only one of those is sterilizing muslim women while keeping them in detention camps? Fighting a multi-national ground war against ISIS is a bit different then genocide against your own citizens.
    - refenestrator 6y ago
      Like I said, the 'good guys' propaganda is good :) If you track down some of the claims you're making, you'll find that most of them originate with this guy Adrian Zenz who is literally a paid propagandist for his job at the "Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation". Not that anybody who claims to be 'liberating the muslims' is ever up to any good. But some more objective measures might be things like, what is the body count associated with either nation, or has the population been going up or down in a given region.
  - loceng 6y ago
    I don't think it's comparable - however yes, bad actors and bad actions are decentralized to a degree. The different between China and the US is the CCP is in "permanent" tyrannical control vs. the US et al have democratic elections and at least the society, the people, have the chance to evolve society to elect better people who will steer the ship better towards the ideal global society.
    - solosoyokaze 6y ago
      Electoral politics in the US has done nothing to stop the US from invading countries around the world (particularly in the Middle East) for the past half a century+. Who would I vote for if I wanted to stop bombing people? There is no one.
      - loceng 6y ago
        Then run for political leadership.
      - pudhbithyftdti 6y ago
- solosoyokaze 6y ago
  Our lies are probably the most harmful as we have the world's largest military and it's deployed worldwide. Do you not remember the NYT lying to get the Iraq War started? I can't think of a more devastating instance of propaganda.
  - loceng 6y ago
    So once again, along with naming the CCP vs. naming China as the bad actor, we need to instead of naming the US as the bad actor, we have to name the industrial complexes including the duopoly that has been allowed to develop over the last many decades - allowing the duopoly's two core narratives to be the majority of what people get fed through mainstream media conglomerates (the media industrial complex) owned by a handful of individuals. If we don't correctly, accurately label who is the real target - our anger will be misplaced - and that is something the bad actors want to have happen, and will certainly perpetuate themselves. And we don't learn then. Quick soundbites spread easily but it's not the way.

Plenty of it by our own government and allies as well. Maybe we can be a little more principled than "good guy nations" and "bad guy nations" if the goal is truth?

loceng 6y ago

Who's truth is more truthful, who's lies are more harmful/helpful?

taf2 6y ago
"Seriously because the aliens are already here and I have proof!" -- Joking aside sometimes pushing a truth whether it's true or not has an impact on inflaming conspiracy theories... Youtube's covid, election banners for example IMO did more to incite deep state conspiracy then to reduce it... "One often meets their fate on the path they take to avoid it..." - Kung Fu panda
- loceng 6y ago
  YouTube's blanket ban was a problem absolutely - it was lazy and as hands-off as possible missing all nuance.
  - thereddaikon 6y ago
    Classic Google, when nuance and reason are required they instead program a dumb bot to handle it.
refenestrator 6y ago
I was struck by the Chinese embassy that got banned a couple months ago. They said that their fight against radical islam is good for uighur women.. which is propaganda but also the exact same propaganda that western interventionists use all the time. One is ok, the other is not.
- vorpalhex 6y ago
  Well it probably helps only one of those is sterilizing muslim women while keeping them in detention camps? Fighting a multi-national ground war against ISIS is a bit different then genocide against your own citizens.
  - refenestrator 6y ago
    Like I said, the 'good guys' propaganda is good :) If you track down some of the claims you're making, you'll find that most of them originate with this guy Adrian Zenz who is literally a paid propagandist for his job at the "Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation". Not that anybody who claims to be 'liberating the muslims' is ever up to any good. But some more objective measures might be things like, what is the body count associated with either nation, or has the population been going up or down in a given region.
- loceng 6y ago
  I don't think it's comparable - however yes, bad actors and bad actions are decentralized to a degree. The different between China and the US is the CCP is in "permanent" tyrannical control vs. the US et al have democratic elections and at least the society, the people, have the chance to evolve society to elect better people who will steer the ship better towards the ideal global society.
  - solosoyokaze 6y ago
    Electoral politics in the US has done nothing to stop the US from invading countries around the world (particularly in the Middle East) for the past half a century+. Who would I vote for if I wanted to stop bombing people? There is no one.
    - loceng 6y ago
      Then run for political leadership.
    - pudhbithyftdti 6y ago
solosoyokaze 6y ago
Our lies are probably the most harmful as we have the world's largest military and it's deployed worldwide. Do you not remember the NYT lying to get the Iraq War started? I can't think of a more devastating instance of propaganda.
- loceng 6y ago
  So once again, along with naming the CCP vs. naming China as the bad actor, we need to instead of naming the US as the bad actor, we have to name the industrial complexes including the duopoly that has been allowed to develop over the last many decades - allowing the duopoly's two core narratives to be the majority of what people get fed through mainstream media conglomerates (the media industrial complex) owned by a handful of individuals. If we don't correctly, accurately label who is the real target - our anger will be misplaced - and that is something the bad actors want to have happen, and will certainly perpetuate themselves. And we don't learn then. Quick soundbites spread easily but it's not the way.