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On Twitter you can find promoted full blown propaganda paid for by hostile (to the US at least) state sponsored news agencies and government officials. These sa

On Twitter you can find promoted full blown propaganda paid for by hostile (to the US at least) state sponsored news agencies and government officials. These same governments ban Twitter in their own countries and would never allow similar content on their own platforms. Twitter's solution here is to insert a tiny "State affiliated" footer text below the account name. Can you imagine in the Cold War-era NBC being allowed to broadcast propaganda ads bought and paid for by the Soviet Union?

refenestrator 6y ago
Plenty of it by our own government and allies as well. Maybe we can be a little more principled than "good guy nations" and "bad guy nations" if the goal is truth?
- loceng 6y ago
  Who's truth is more truthful, who's lies are more harmful/helpful?
  - taf2 6y ago
    "Seriously because the aliens are already here and I have proof!" -- Joking aside sometimes pushing a truth whether it's true or not has an impact on inflaming conspiracy theories... Youtube's covid, election banners for example IMO did more to incite deep state conspiracy then to reduce it... "One often meets their fate on the path they take to avoid it..." - Kung Fu panda
    - loceng 6y ago
      YouTube's blanket ban was a problem absolutely - it was lazy and as hands-off as possible missing all nuance.
      - thereddaikon 6y ago
        Classic Google, when nuance and reason are required they instead program a dumb bot to handle it.
  - refenestrator 6y ago
    I was struck by the Chinese embassy that got banned a couple months ago. They said that their fight against radical islam is good for uighur women.. which is propaganda but also the exact same propaganda that western interventionists use all the time. One is ok, the other is not.
    - vorpalhex 6y ago
      Well it probably helps only one of those is sterilizing muslim women while keeping them in detention camps? Fighting a multi-national ground war against ISIS is a bit different then genocide against your own citizens.
      - refenestrator 6y ago
        Like I said, the 'good guys' propaganda is good :) If you track down some of the claims you're making, you'll find that most of them originate with this guy Adrian Zenz who is literally a paid propagandist for his job at the "Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation". Not that anybody who claims to be 'liberating the muslims' is ever up to any good. But some more objective measures might be things like, what is the body count associated with either nation, or has the population been going up or down in a given region.
    - loceng 6y ago
      I don't think it's comparable - however yes, bad actors and bad actions are decentralized to a degree. The different between China and the US is the CCP is in "permanent" tyrannical control vs. the US et al have democratic elections and at least the society, the people, have the chance to evolve society to elect better people who will steer the ship better towards the ideal global society.
      - solosoyokaze 6y ago
        Electoral politics in the US has done nothing to stop the US from invading countries around the world (particularly in the Middle East) for the past half a century+. Who would I vote for if I wanted to stop bombing people? There is no one.
  - solosoyokaze 6y ago
    Our lies are probably the most harmful as we have the world's largest military and it's deployed worldwide. Do you not remember the NYT lying to get the Iraq War started? I can't think of a more devastating instance of propaganda.
    - loceng 6y ago
      So once again, along with naming the CCP vs. naming China as the bad actor, we need to instead of naming the US as the bad actor, we have to name the industrial complexes including the duopoly that has been allowed to develop over the last many decades - allowing the duopoly's two core narratives to be the majority of what people get fed through mainstream media conglomerates (the media industrial complex) owned by a handful of individuals. If we don't correctly, accurately label who is the real target - our anger will be misplaced - and that is something the bad actors want to have happen, and will certainly perpetuate themselves. And we don't learn then. Quick soundbites spread easily but it's not the way.
ceilingcorner 6y ago
It is allowed because the gatekeepers today are much more financially involved with hostile states. The same situation didn’t exist with the Soviets.
IgorPartola 6y ago
You might want to take a look at Voice of America, a Congress-funded network that broadcasts almost exclusively outside the US as US propaganda: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voice_of_America https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voice_of_America
- CincinnatiMan 6y ago
  Sorry, I'm not making the connection to what OP was saying. Can you expand? Does Voice of America pretend to be a domestic news source to the areas it broadcasts?
  - blululu 6y ago
    No it doesn’t. I think the OP was making a what-about counter argument, that the CIA was blasting pro-NATO radio programs into the Eastern Block. Of course the Soviets hated this and constantly tried to jam the signal so I think this example supports the root comment that most governments have a serious interest in curtailing adversarial propaganda.
  - cma 6y ago
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Prensa_(Managua) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Prensa_(Managua)
    - thereddaikon 6y ago
      Protip about wiki links. Posting the mobile link loads the mobile site for both desktop and mobile users however posting the desktop link will load the appropriate version for both desktop and mobile users. Always post the desktop version link. I always take care to remove m. from a wiki link I'm sharing if I'm using a mobile device.
- president 6y ago
  Not sure if you have read or watched VOA as of late but there is a lot of "America bad" content in there as well. If it's propaganda, it sure is doing a bad job at it.
ulucs 6y ago
Yes, only US should be able to spread their propaganda
- nbardy 6y ago
  You'll have better conversations of you engage with the argument rather than misrepresent it.
DyslexicAtheist 6y ago
> full blown propaganda paid for by hostile (to the US at least) state sponsored news agencies twitter is available freely on the Internet in any country that doesn't block it. with that in mind it's extremely difficult to remain "neutral" or be expected to be the arbiter of truth. there are some obvious (easy) ways to implement constraints against state-affiliated propaganda outlets but with the above in mind what is "propaganda" to a European audience might just be news in a FVEY country. facebook has the same problem and I think it's not solvable in a "fair" way. Say if they really went after anything that is "propaganda" should they also be pointing out that Bellingcat is having very strong ties with Atlantic Council (and collaborates with GCHQ), or should @NatSecGeek be called out for only doxing non-US organizations and individuals? There simply are too many small players that participate in InfoOps and their alignment isn't always as straight forward. note: I personally think both bellingcat/NatSecGeek do excellent work but none of them are unbiased (or unaffiliated) which means they will at times end up as useful idiots (whether it suits them or not).
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
throwawaysea 6y ago
Why does it matter if propaganda is coming from a foreign state actor or domestic groups, like activist groups that seek to shut down any opposing views?
- Robotbeat 6y ago
  Your comment has some unintended irony if taken as a call for action.

refenestrator 6y ago

Plenty of it by our own government and allies as well. Maybe we can be a little more principled than "good guy nations" and "bad guy nations" if the goal is truth?

loceng 6y ago
Who's truth is more truthful, who's lies are more harmful/helpful?
- taf2 6y ago
  "Seriously because the aliens are already here and I have proof!" -- Joking aside sometimes pushing a truth whether it's true or not has an impact on inflaming conspiracy theories... Youtube's covid, election banners for example IMO did more to incite deep state conspiracy then to reduce it... "One often meets their fate on the path they take to avoid it..." - Kung Fu panda
  - loceng 6y ago
    YouTube's blanket ban was a problem absolutely - it was lazy and as hands-off as possible missing all nuance.
    - thereddaikon 6y ago
      Classic Google, when nuance and reason are required they instead program a dumb bot to handle it.
- refenestrator 6y ago
  I was struck by the Chinese embassy that got banned a couple months ago. They said that their fight against radical islam is good for uighur women.. which is propaganda but also the exact same propaganda that western interventionists use all the time. One is ok, the other is not.
  - vorpalhex 6y ago
    Well it probably helps only one of those is sterilizing muslim women while keeping them in detention camps? Fighting a multi-national ground war against ISIS is a bit different then genocide against your own citizens.
    - refenestrator 6y ago
      Like I said, the 'good guys' propaganda is good :) If you track down some of the claims you're making, you'll find that most of them originate with this guy Adrian Zenz who is literally a paid propagandist for his job at the "Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation". Not that anybody who claims to be 'liberating the muslims' is ever up to any good. But some more objective measures might be things like, what is the body count associated with either nation, or has the population been going up or down in a given region.
  - loceng 6y ago
    I don't think it's comparable - however yes, bad actors and bad actions are decentralized to a degree. The different between China and the US is the CCP is in "permanent" tyrannical control vs. the US et al have democratic elections and at least the society, the people, have the chance to evolve society to elect better people who will steer the ship better towards the ideal global society.
    - solosoyokaze 6y ago
      Electoral politics in the US has done nothing to stop the US from invading countries around the world (particularly in the Middle East) for the past half a century+. Who would I vote for if I wanted to stop bombing people? There is no one.
- solosoyokaze 6y ago
  Our lies are probably the most harmful as we have the world's largest military and it's deployed worldwide. Do you not remember the NYT lying to get the Iraq War started? I can't think of a more devastating instance of propaganda.
  - loceng 6y ago
    So once again, along with naming the CCP vs. naming China as the bad actor, we need to instead of naming the US as the bad actor, we have to name the industrial complexes including the duopoly that has been allowed to develop over the last many decades - allowing the duopoly's two core narratives to be the majority of what people get fed through mainstream media conglomerates (the media industrial complex) owned by a handful of individuals. If we don't correctly, accurately label who is the real target - our anger will be misplaced - and that is something the bad actors want to have happen, and will certainly perpetuate themselves. And we don't learn then. Quick soundbites spread easily but it's not the way.

ceilingcorner 6y ago

It is allowed because the gatekeepers today are much more financially involved with hostile states. The same situation didn’t exist with the Soviets.

IgorPartola 6y ago

You might want to take a look at Voice of America, a Congress-funded network that broadcasts almost exclusively outside the US as US propaganda: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voice_of_America https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voice_of_America

CincinnatiMan 6y ago
Sorry, I'm not making the connection to what OP was saying. Can you expand? Does Voice of America pretend to be a domestic news source to the areas it broadcasts?
- blululu 6y ago
  No it doesn’t. I think the OP was making a what-about counter argument, that the CIA was blasting pro-NATO radio programs into the Eastern Block. Of course the Soviets hated this and constantly tried to jam the signal so I think this example supports the root comment that most governments have a serious interest in curtailing adversarial propaganda.
- cma 6y ago
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Prensa_(Managua) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Prensa_(Managua)
  - thereddaikon 6y ago
    Protip about wiki links. Posting the mobile link loads the mobile site for both desktop and mobile users however posting the desktop link will load the appropriate version for both desktop and mobile users. Always post the desktop version link. I always take care to remove m. from a wiki link I'm sharing if I'm using a mobile device.
president 6y ago
Not sure if you have read or watched VOA as of late but there is a lot of "America bad" content in there as well. If it's propaganda, it sure is doing a bad job at it.

ulucs 6y ago

Yes, only US should be able to spread their propaganda

nbardy 6y ago
You'll have better conversations of you engage with the argument rather than misrepresent it.

DyslexicAtheist 6y ago

> full blown propaganda paid for by hostile (to the US at least) state sponsored news agencies twitter is available freely on the Internet in any country that doesn't block it. with that in mind it's extremely difficult to remain "neutral" or be expected to be the arbiter of truth. there are some obvious (easy) ways to implement constraints against state-affiliated propaganda outlets but with the above in mind what is "propaganda" to a European audience might just be news in a FVEY country. facebook has the same problem and I think it's not solvable in a "fair" way. Say if they really went after anything that is "propaganda" should they also be pointing out that Bellingcat is having very strong ties with Atlantic Council (and collaborates with GCHQ), or should @NatSecGeek be called out for only doxing non-US organizations and individuals? There simply are too many small players that participate in InfoOps and their alignment isn't always as straight forward. note: I personally think both bellingcat/NatSecGeek do excellent work but none of them are unbiased (or unaffiliated) which means they will at times end up as useful idiots (whether it suits them or not).

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

throwawaysea 6y ago

Why does it matter if propaganda is coming from a foreign state actor or domestic groups, like activist groups that seek to shut down any opposing views?

Robotbeat 6y ago
Your comment has some unintended irony if taken as a call for action.