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My first thought is how the prison system failed him. Computer literacy is a fundamental job skill in the 21st century, one that's relatively easily and inexpen

My first thought is how the prison system failed him. Computer literacy is a fundamental job skill in the 21st century, one that's relatively easily and inexpensively taught. I'd expect computer literacy programs in any prison system built around rehabilitation.

Chris2048 6y ago
yep, 30 years is enough time to pursue several degrees, let alone basic skills. What facilities do US prisons provide!?
- hans1729 6y ago
  The US prison system isn't designed around rehabilitation, but around profit. Just like the US justice system isn't designed around justice, but around righteousness. The fact that us-amerian judges fund their own election campaigns underlines the absurdity, and yet it's just one facette in a reality that's going well beyond the satirical ideas spun towards the end of the last century. Sorry if I'm rambling a bit, I don't want to waste anyones time. It's just hard to swallow the delta between ought and is.
  - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
    >The fact that us-amerian judges fund their own election campaigns Whether judges are elected or appointed varies by state and the states with appointed judges do better at some things but not others.
- neartheplain 6y ago
  I'm not an expert, but my impression is that most US prisons provide little in the way of true rehabilitation. Ironically, while computer skills courses may be unavailable, mobile devices (with Internet service!) are increasingly-common contraband items in US prisons: https://www.forbes.com/sites/walterpavlo/2020/04/19/will-cell-phones-be-the-downfall-of-prisons/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/walterpavlo/2020/04/19/will-cel...
whymauri 6y ago
The US prison system did exactly what the US prison system is designed to do. It's never been a rehabilatory system and we will have to fight to improve it.
- ddtaylor 6y ago
  It's worth mentioning that this doesn't mean it's currently designed to be punitive. It's really just evolved into a system that extracts a very large amount of money via taxes and uses that money to pay various correctional staff and industries to deliver absurdly poor quality services and products. For them, it's a really sweet gig and they're pretty happy that the overall public is apathetic to the situation.
  - psychlops 6y ago
    I disagree. In the US, the public also is pretty happy to lock people away for extended periods of time.
    - ddtaylor 6y ago
      For the most part that's a product of lobbying to increase minimum sentences and overall increase the prison population, since that increases the number of correctional jobs and the sales of the various contracted companies that provide their products. I was in federal prison until just 3 months ago I can safely say this is exactly what I saw while there.
      - psychlops 6y ago
        While I don't disagree (i was joking in my first comment :), I think that's a one dimensional point of view. The majority of people do not interact with the prison system at all and assume that everything is done correctly (if they consider it at all). I don't think there is a concerted conscious profiteering effort and it's just "Tuesday" business for municipalities and contracted corps. I'd contend more that the emotional appeals for tough on crime laws and media crime porn drive the mentality of imprisonment in the US.
ddtaylor 6y ago
While I was in federal prison (one year, just released months ago) I actually tried to setup a crash course that prepared inmates for the "real world" and teach basic skills. This is through a program in the federal prison system (BOP) called ACE - Adult Continuing Education. I sat down and spoke with the manager of the program at the prison. She barely removed her eyes from her computer screen and when I was done proposing my idea she just shrugged and said "that's not something we want to invest time into." I then asked her if she thought these skills were more necessary today than yesterday and compared to 5 years ago - basically establishing that this is only going to get worse not better. She just repeated that "this isn't what the BOP wants to do." It's worth mentioning what those ACE classes currently consist of. The ones I saw while I was in prison ranged from basic math/arithmetic (addition, multiplication, very basic algebra) to poetry and origami. Which is interesting because it would paint the picture that people in prison are dumb or not learning anything, whereas they actually are learning quite a lot since they have little else to occupy themselves with besides books - especially during COVID times (since we were essentially locked down the entire time during the pandemic while I was incarcerated) I met many inmates that were learning complex math and physics, computer programming and I met some that had never seen the "real world" in any capacity with Bitcoin or other emerging technologies that had a decent grasp of how they operated from the various books they had read.
neurostimulant 6y ago
If the goal for the prison system is to rehabilitate the inmates, then indeed it failed him. But if the goal of the prison system is to punish the inmates, then it has achieved its goal and even continue to punish him long after he served his time.
- koonsolo 6y ago
  The problem is of course that you want both. First you want to punish them so they, and others, are not motivated to do such a crime again. But at the same time, you want them to go out as a better person than they went in (else there is no point in releasing them). Punishing people after their release is not benefitting anyone.
  - holoduke 6y ago
    Dozens of studies show that punishment is barely a motivation. The only way of making a society more secure is to prevent people stepping into the criminal world in the first place. Education, integration etc. And if they still do, as much effort must be taken to let them integrate back into society as soon and smooth as possible.
  - cestith 6y ago
    Ideally you want to lower recidivism. Giving people who were stealing or dealing drugs a reasonable chance of making a good living in a legal way reduces recidivism. Getting people with unstable homes and unstable lives counseling and training reduces recidivism. Helping them get jobs reduces recidivism. The state really has little to gain from punishment. There's keeping people who are a risk off the streets on one hand. There's rehabilitation and changing the circumstances of the offenders. The interest in punishment is from politicians who want to appear "tough on crime" to their electorate. Those policies aren't tough on crime, though. They're tough on criminals in all the ways that lead to more crime in the end.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

Chris2048 6y ago

yep, 30 years is enough time to pursue several degrees, let alone basic skills. What facilities do US prisons provide!?

hans1729 6y ago
The US prison system isn't designed around rehabilitation, but around profit. Just like the US justice system isn't designed around justice, but around righteousness. The fact that us-amerian judges fund their own election campaigns underlines the absurdity, and yet it's just one facette in a reality that's going well beyond the satirical ideas spun towards the end of the last century. Sorry if I'm rambling a bit, I don't want to waste anyones time. It's just hard to swallow the delta between ought and is.
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  >The fact that us-amerian judges fund their own election campaigns Whether judges are elected or appointed varies by state and the states with appointed judges do better at some things but not others.
neartheplain 6y ago
I'm not an expert, but my impression is that most US prisons provide little in the way of true rehabilitation. Ironically, while computer skills courses may be unavailable, mobile devices (with Internet service!) are increasingly-common contraband items in US prisons: https://www.forbes.com/sites/walterpavlo/2020/04/19/will-cell-phones-be-the-downfall-of-prisons/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/walterpavlo/2020/04/19/will-cel...

whymauri 6y ago

The US prison system did exactly what the US prison system is designed to do. It's never been a rehabilatory system and we will have to fight to improve it.

ddtaylor 6y ago
It's worth mentioning that this doesn't mean it's currently designed to be punitive. It's really just evolved into a system that extracts a very large amount of money via taxes and uses that money to pay various correctional staff and industries to deliver absurdly poor quality services and products. For them, it's a really sweet gig and they're pretty happy that the overall public is apathetic to the situation.
- psychlops 6y ago
  I disagree. In the US, the public also is pretty happy to lock people away for extended periods of time.
  - ddtaylor 6y ago
    For the most part that's a product of lobbying to increase minimum sentences and overall increase the prison population, since that increases the number of correctional jobs and the sales of the various contracted companies that provide their products. I was in federal prison until just 3 months ago I can safely say this is exactly what I saw while there.
    - psychlops 6y ago
      While I don't disagree (i was joking in my first comment :), I think that's a one dimensional point of view. The majority of people do not interact with the prison system at all and assume that everything is done correctly (if they consider it at all). I don't think there is a concerted conscious profiteering effort and it's just "Tuesday" business for municipalities and contracted corps. I'd contend more that the emotional appeals for tough on crime laws and media crime porn drive the mentality of imprisonment in the US.

ddtaylor 6y ago

While I was in federal prison (one year, just released months ago) I actually tried to setup a crash course that prepared inmates for the "real world" and teach basic skills. This is through a program in the federal prison system (BOP) called ACE - Adult Continuing Education. I sat down and spoke with the manager of the program at the prison. She barely removed her eyes from her computer screen and when I was done proposing my idea she just shrugged and said "that's not something we want to invest time into." I then asked her if she thought these skills were more necessary today than yesterday and compared to 5 years ago - basically establishing that this is only going to get worse not better. She just repeated that "this isn't what the BOP wants to do." It's worth mentioning what those ACE classes currently consist of. The ones I saw while I was in prison ranged from basic math/arithmetic (addition, multiplication, very basic algebra) to poetry and origami. Which is interesting because it would paint the picture that people in prison are dumb or not learning anything, whereas they actually are learning quite a lot since they have little else to occupy themselves with besides books - especially during COVID times (since we were essentially locked down the entire time during the pandemic while I was incarcerated) I met many inmates that were learning complex math and physics, computer programming and I met some that had never seen the "real world" in any capacity with Bitcoin or other emerging technologies that had a decent grasp of how they operated from the various books they had read.

neurostimulant 6y ago

If the goal for the prison system is to rehabilitate the inmates, then indeed it failed him. But if the goal of the prison system is to punish the inmates, then it has achieved its goal and even continue to punish him long after he served his time.

koonsolo 6y ago
The problem is of course that you want both. First you want to punish them so they, and others, are not motivated to do such a crime again. But at the same time, you want them to go out as a better person than they went in (else there is no point in releasing them). Punishing people after their release is not benefitting anyone.
- holoduke 6y ago
  Dozens of studies show that punishment is barely a motivation. The only way of making a society more secure is to prevent people stepping into the criminal world in the first place. Education, integration etc. And if they still do, as much effort must be taken to let them integrate back into society as soon and smooth as possible.
- cestith 6y ago
  Ideally you want to lower recidivism. Giving people who were stealing or dealing drugs a reasonable chance of making a good living in a legal way reduces recidivism. Getting people with unstable homes and unstable lives counseling and training reduces recidivism. Helping them get jobs reduces recidivism. The state really has little to gain from punishment. There's keeping people who are a risk off the streets on one hand. There's rehabilitation and changing the circumstances of the offenders. The interest in punishment is from politicians who want to appear "tough on crime" to their electorate. Those policies aren't tough on crime, though. They're tough on criminals in all the ways that lead to more crime in the end.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]