6 ms·

I've seen this movie 500 times at least (young daughters/nieces). The first mistake made here is, Disney plots are their own genre, and have been for many year

I've seen this movie 500 times at least (young daughters/nieces). The first mistake made here is, Disney plots are their own genre, and have been for many years. This plot does break some Disney tropes, but if you look closely, all the beats are there still. As a father and uncle, I appreciate this movie that is less male-centric. There is a lot of subtly in certain places-- the song between Anna and Hans, "Love is an Open Door" -- while the trap set is abhorrent-- if you understand the lyrics, these characters are not talking about "love", they are talking about second order effects of running from their (psychological) problems. In the song, nobody says the only thing that someone should say, "I love you because you are you." Rather, the song is purposefully shallow, "This is how you make me feel, about me." Moving on... The Trolls are equivalent to the "prophecy" trope we see in so much bad entertainment nowadays. They essentially lay out the entire movie for you. This is frighteningly common but one could argue in a movie for children it might be good to let them know whats going on. The Trolls just tell us the prophecy in an amusing manner, instead of being some boring scroll that was found or exposition that was told to us. They get a silly musical number, and honestly why are you watching a Disney movie if you didn't want a silly musical number by cute anthropomorphic, marketable things? The Trolls advice is indeed baffling... but the motivation to hide Elsa's powers are very well established-- magic is feared and punishable by death, and its even playful use directly harmed Anna. You could probably overlay real world problem here as a metaphor... The fact that the article misses this obvious point makes me wonder about the authenticity of the authors intent at all. The Trolls are a plot device in a movie that, was overall pretty-ok. They're not evil, they're just an escalator that moves the plot along. I like that the movie deviated slightly from Disney-standard plots. I don't want my kiddo to think a man needs to save her... we have a rule around here, "She can have as many Barbies as chemistry sets." Overall, it was a decent film. Fantastic movie, fantastic animation, and an "ok" plot. :-) Frozen 2 was more... wonderful and silly. I liked the film, the set piece at the denouement was wonderful, but we have to explore that Anna is obviously the spirit of fire, which wasn't broached.

lupire 6y ago
> , "She can have as many Barbies as chemistry sets." Why? A chemistry set has 50 pieces. A barbie is 1.
- zeckalpha 6y ago
  I take it you haven’t played with many Barbies.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- watwut 6y ago
  I think it was "I am feminist dad who make sure girls have educational toys too" statement rather then something meant to be taken literally.
- drewzero1 6y ago
  50? You must have had nicer chemistry sets than I did. Also, less worn-out Barbies.
ericcholis 6y ago
Frozen 2, in my opinion, takes a calculated risk in world building for a young audience. They literally force the characters into a larger world to learn new cultures and how these natural forces effect the larger world. Ahtohallan is a giant abstract metaphor for self improvement, confidence, and self actualization. Again, it's in the lyrics of the song. I'm all for these nuanced layers of messaging that tweak the standard tropes.
- throwaway5752 6y ago
  Frozen 2 felt like it was written for three different audiences - the usual suspects of parents and young children, but in this case (and somewhat novel) for kids that were young children for the first movie six years earlier and it was a really important movie in their lives. If you say that those kids were approximately 6 years old in 2013, they are 12 and entering adolescence by the time Frozen 2 comes out. You look at the child psychology of early adolescence (physiological changes, anxiety, insecurity, and so on) the thematic changes make lots of sense.
veddox 6y ago
I don't think this analysis was meant to be taken completely seriously. At least, I read it as more of a tongue-in-cheek "This plot is frustratingly incoherent, how can we reinterpret it to make more sense?" > Frozen 2 was more... wonderful and silly. I fully agree with you there (although my family is split 50-50 on the question ;-) ). As I wrote below, Frozen 2 has a lot more depth. Its whole theme of growing up is handled in a beautiful and mature (un-Disney-like) manner, with a lot of points I felt I could relate to. Not introducing any new infatuations left the script writers a lot more space to explore friendships, sibling relationships, and more "serious" romantic relationships; all to great effect. At the same time, you still have Olaf being Olaf, Elsa singing her songs, and some stunning landscape animations...
- faitswulff 6y ago
  Frozen 2 had more depth, but unfortunately I think that made it harder for my then-5yo to relate to.
- oceanghost 6y ago
  Perhaps my literal reading of the article was naive. It is difficult sometimes to tell the difference between, parody and simplicity. I agree F2 tackled some big ideas. I liked that about it... What I specifically hated was-- how the movie backtracked on the relationships (I'd love to hear your thoughts on this?). At the end of F1, we establish that Anna and Kristof are dating, and that Anna saves Elsa, then Anna is separated from them both and they're both off doing things necessary to the plot that inconvenience Anna emotionally, and this felt like very old territory.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
vb6sp6 6y ago
> I don't want my kiddo to think a man needs to save her... I've also seen frozen more times than I'd like to admit and have to disagree with this conclusion. Anna would've died multiple times if Kristoff wasn't around.
devmunchies 6y ago
> I don't want my kiddo to think a man needs to save her yes, but I think it's teaching this the wrong way. Here is a quote from Hiyao Miyazaki, who is famous for having female leads in animated films. > "That song ‘Let it Go’ is popular now. It’s all about being yourself. But that’s terrible — self-satisfied people are boring. We have to push hard and surpass ourselves." I think it's right, instead of an IDGAF attitude, it's better to highlight hard work.
- watwut 6y ago
  Yeah, we should make kids feel bad about themselves in cartoons. Only adults and teenagers should be allowed the movies that makes them feel good about themselves.
  - klyrs 6y ago
    (tongue firmly in cheek) Not sure how many teenagers you've met... are you sure you want to encourage that? And don't even get me started on adults... More seriously. Moderation in everything, but we're in a society and there will always be people arguing for one pole or another. Most people recognize a need for balance, but to attain balance they pick the pole they see as insufficiently represented in society... and tend to ignore the other(s) If we all agree "rest is for the wicked" we end up with suicidal geniuses. If we all agree "chill out, it's cool man" then real progress is impossible. People advocating a reasonable mix can't summarize their position quickly enough to get attention
    - watwut 6y ago
      I did not found above quote to be moderation. It is literally complaint about how a single sonf let it go is terrible, because lyrics are about being self-satisfied. There are songs and movies about trying to improve things, about being sad about being aggressive and so on. The one popular song about 5-7 years old crowd about being self satisfied doea not mean anything terrible.
  - devmunchies 6y ago
    implying that cartoons that inspire one to rise above can't also make you feel good, optimistic, or inspired? I can't think of a miyazaki film that would make a kid feel bad about themselves.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

lupire 6y ago

> , "She can have as many Barbies as chemistry sets." Why? A chemistry set has 50 pieces. A barbie is 1.

zeckalpha 6y ago
I take it you haven’t played with many Barbies.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
watwut 6y ago
I think it was "I am feminist dad who make sure girls have educational toys too" statement rather then something meant to be taken literally.
drewzero1 6y ago
50? You must have had nicer chemistry sets than I did. Also, less worn-out Barbies.

ericcholis 6y ago

Frozen 2, in my opinion, takes a calculated risk in world building for a young audience. They literally force the characters into a larger world to learn new cultures and how these natural forces effect the larger world. Ahtohallan is a giant abstract metaphor for self improvement, confidence, and self actualization. Again, it's in the lyrics of the song. I'm all for these nuanced layers of messaging that tweak the standard tropes.

throwaway5752 6y ago
Frozen 2 felt like it was written for three different audiences - the usual suspects of parents and young children, but in this case (and somewhat novel) for kids that were young children for the first movie six years earlier and it was a really important movie in their lives. If you say that those kids were approximately 6 years old in 2013, they are 12 and entering adolescence by the time Frozen 2 comes out. You look at the child psychology of early adolescence (physiological changes, anxiety, insecurity, and so on) the thematic changes make lots of sense.

veddox 6y ago

I don't think this analysis was meant to be taken completely seriously. At least, I read it as more of a tongue-in-cheek "This plot is frustratingly incoherent, how can we reinterpret it to make more sense?" > Frozen 2 was more... wonderful and silly. I fully agree with you there (although my family is split 50-50 on the question ;-) ). As I wrote below, Frozen 2 has a lot more depth. Its whole theme of growing up is handled in a beautiful and mature (un-Disney-like) manner, with a lot of points I felt I could relate to. Not introducing any new infatuations left the script writers a lot more space to explore friendships, sibling relationships, and more "serious" romantic relationships; all to great effect. At the same time, you still have Olaf being Olaf, Elsa singing her songs, and some stunning landscape animations...

faitswulff 6y ago
Frozen 2 had more depth, but unfortunately I think that made it harder for my then-5yo to relate to.
oceanghost 6y ago
Perhaps my literal reading of the article was naive. It is difficult sometimes to tell the difference between, parody and simplicity. I agree F2 tackled some big ideas. I liked that about it... What I specifically hated was-- how the movie backtracked on the relationships (I'd love to hear your thoughts on this?). At the end of F1, we establish that Anna and Kristof are dating, and that Anna saves Elsa, then Anna is separated from them both and they're both off doing things necessary to the plot that inconvenience Anna emotionally, and this felt like very old territory.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

vb6sp6 6y ago

> I don't want my kiddo to think a man needs to save her... I've also seen frozen more times than I'd like to admit and have to disagree with this conclusion. Anna would've died multiple times if Kristoff wasn't around.

devmunchies 6y ago

> I don't want my kiddo to think a man needs to save her yes, but I think it's teaching this the wrong way. Here is a quote from Hiyao Miyazaki, who is famous for having female leads in animated films. > "That song ‘Let it Go’ is popular now. It’s all about being yourself. But that’s terrible — self-satisfied people are boring. We have to push hard and surpass ourselves." I think it's right, instead of an IDGAF attitude, it's better to highlight hard work.

watwut 6y ago
Yeah, we should make kids feel bad about themselves in cartoons. Only adults and teenagers should be allowed the movies that makes them feel good about themselves.
- klyrs 6y ago
  (tongue firmly in cheek) Not sure how many teenagers you've met... are you sure you want to encourage that? And don't even get me started on adults... More seriously. Moderation in everything, but we're in a society and there will always be people arguing for one pole or another. Most people recognize a need for balance, but to attain balance they pick the pole they see as insufficiently represented in society... and tend to ignore the other(s) If we all agree "rest is for the wicked" we end up with suicidal geniuses. If we all agree "chill out, it's cool man" then real progress is impossible. People advocating a reasonable mix can't summarize their position quickly enough to get attention
  - watwut 6y ago
    I did not found above quote to be moderation. It is literally complaint about how a single sonf let it go is terrible, because lyrics are about being self-satisfied. There are songs and movies about trying to improve things, about being sad about being aggressive and so on. The one popular song about 5-7 years old crowd about being self satisfied doea not mean anything terrible.
- devmunchies 6y ago
  implying that cartoons that inspire one to rise above can't also make you feel good, optimistic, or inspired? I can't think of a miyazaki film that would make a kid feel bad about themselves.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]