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Why would you install postgres through Brew though? Those times are way gone, that's the purpose of containers. I've been using Brew for a while to just insta

by iamAy0 6y ago

Why would you install postgres through Brew though? Those times are way gone, that's the purpose of containers. I've been using Brew for a while to just install "core" packages like python, curl, wget and such, and everything else like a postgres, nginx, whatever..a go to a container.

vetinari 6y ago
Because if you need to ingest some data, it is much slower with Docker Desktop for Mac :/ Also, I have some tools installed with brew, that have postgres as dependency (e.g. pgloader or mapnik).
michaelcampbell 6y ago
Not going to wade into the "should" or "shouldn't" of this, but I have used postgres-via-docker for ... few years now, and it is a DREAM. And I never have to worry about versions or dependencies (at least I haven't yet).
- earthboundkid 6y ago
  I've installed Postgres on my Mac with Homebrew, Docker, and https://postgresapp.com https://postgresapp.com. There are arguments for each of them. On the pro side: - Homebrew is a general purpose package manager, and Postgres is a package you might want managed. - If you're using Docker/Docker Compose for a project anyway, that's the obvious way to do it. - Postgres.app is a specialized tool just for managing Postgres installs, so it's hard to beat if that's what you need. Some thoughts on the tradeoffs though: - Homebrew really doesn't like the idea of "versions". It wants everything to be on the latest. That can be fine if you just need a tool locally, but if you want dev and prod to match, it is a pain in the ass. - Docker isn't really very good at persistence. That's probably not a problem for local development, but you should be aware of it. Running it on a Mac introduces speed and memory issues you wouldn't otherwise have. And now obviously there's the M1 problem. - Postgres.app is another thing to install. If you just need Postgres for one particular project you might not know about it or want to deal with installing something new.
Toutouxc 6y ago
> Those times are way gone, that's the purpose of containers. Please elaborate on the claim that "running a SQL database" is the purpose of containers.
- vetinari 6y ago
  To be fair to GP, running sql database inside a container does have benefits for development, and in many situations, for deployment too. However, if I do some exploratory experiments, where I don't care about repeability and where I use other local tools (like the mentioned mapnik, or jupyter), having it in container is needless complication.
- Terretta 6y ago
  Why wouldn’t you want to run a database under namespaces and cgroups from a dependency-bundled live archive file tree? By and large, there’s no such thing as a container, there’s just sprinkles of housekeeping magic. To wit, Docker implemented in around 100 lines of bash: https://github.com/p8952/bocker https://github.com/p8952/bocker Problems come when we think that today’s containers manage to actually contain anything, bring any security guarantees, or do much else than just slightly-more-successfully jump start a configurable bundle of dependencies.
  - Spivak 6y ago
    I think you're being unkind to containers. Yes it's easy to say that "containers aren't a thing" and then list all the little tools that are used to implement them. That doesn't make them not real any more than any other abstraction. Why wouldn't you want to run a database under VT-x, with random emulated hardware and a dependency-bundled disk image? By and large there's no such thing as a VM, there's just sprinkles of housekeeping magic? Containers as specced and implemented do come with security guarantees. And if they fail to meet them it's a bug.

by iamAy0 6y ago

vetinari 6y ago

Because if you need to ingest some data, it is much slower with Docker Desktop for Mac :/ Also, I have some tools installed with brew, that have postgres as dependency (e.g. pgloader or mapnik).

michaelcampbell 6y ago

Not going to wade into the "should" or "shouldn't" of this, but I have used postgres-via-docker for ... few years now, and it is a DREAM. And I never have to worry about versions or dependencies (at least I haven't yet).

earthboundkid 6y ago
I've installed Postgres on my Mac with Homebrew, Docker, and https://postgresapp.com https://postgresapp.com. There are arguments for each of them. On the pro side: - Homebrew is a general purpose package manager, and Postgres is a package you might want managed. - If you're using Docker/Docker Compose for a project anyway, that's the obvious way to do it. - Postgres.app is a specialized tool just for managing Postgres installs, so it's hard to beat if that's what you need. Some thoughts on the tradeoffs though: - Homebrew really doesn't like the idea of "versions". It wants everything to be on the latest. That can be fine if you just need a tool locally, but if you want dev and prod to match, it is a pain in the ass. - Docker isn't really very good at persistence. That's probably not a problem for local development, but you should be aware of it. Running it on a Mac introduces speed and memory issues you wouldn't otherwise have. And now obviously there's the M1 problem. - Postgres.app is another thing to install. If you just need Postgres for one particular project you might not know about it or want to deal with installing something new.

Toutouxc 6y ago

> Those times are way gone, that's the purpose of containers. Please elaborate on the claim that "running a SQL database" is the purpose of containers.

vetinari 6y ago
To be fair to GP, running sql database inside a container does have benefits for development, and in many situations, for deployment too. However, if I do some exploratory experiments, where I don't care about repeability and where I use other local tools (like the mentioned mapnik, or jupyter), having it in container is needless complication.
Terretta 6y ago
Why wouldn’t you want to run a database under namespaces and cgroups from a dependency-bundled live archive file tree? By and large, there’s no such thing as a container, there’s just sprinkles of housekeeping magic. To wit, Docker implemented in around 100 lines of bash: https://github.com/p8952/bocker https://github.com/p8952/bocker Problems come when we think that today’s containers manage to actually contain anything, bring any security guarantees, or do much else than just slightly-more-successfully jump start a configurable bundle of dependencies.
- Spivak 6y ago
  I think you're being unkind to containers. Yes it's easy to say that "containers aren't a thing" and then list all the little tools that are used to implement them. That doesn't make them not real any more than any other abstraction. Why wouldn't you want to run a database under VT-x, with random emulated hardware and a dependency-bundled disk image? By and large there's no such thing as a VM, there's just sprinkles of housekeeping magic? Containers as specced and implemented do come with security guarantees. And if they fail to meet them it's a bug.