3 ms·

Well, since most of Le Carre's books play in a very dark setting, with strong reality connections - I also cannot really "enjoy" them, as in something to lift t

Well, since most of Le Carre's books play in a very dark setting, with strong reality connections - I also cannot really "enjoy" them, as in something to lift the mood. I've read many books of him, but I actually cannot remember one, that was "bright" or uplifting. Usually it ends with death and despair and I think one of the main topic is exactly, how people still try to be decent humans in a cruel world - and how they mostly fail to do so all in all, either because they get shot, or because they play along. It is also mainly about choosing sides. When both sides are clearly not nice, but one is even worse (the cold war setting - british small empire vs sowjet russia)

toyg 6y ago
I don't see how Smiley fails to be a decent human being in Tinker Tailor - he "plays along" only with her unfaithful wife, and that's because he basically loves her unconditionally (although eventually they will separate in later books, iirc).
- hutzlibu 6y ago
  I actually did not read Tinker Tailor yet, but several others, including the finale: He still plays along the dirty lines of spycraft, which are at odds with "decent human being" quite often. Spoileralert for the next paragraph: With the finale of Smiley blackmailing a - by all accounts of the spys observing him, a very nice guy - into cooperation. Then blackmailing a father to change sides, otherwise his psychological ill daughter will have to leave her Swiss sanatorium and face Russia, which meant Sibiria as she would have been classified as dissident and not ill (she was both). Ok, the father was Karla, the cruel head of the KGB's 13. very black Division. Smileys antagonist. Who did this and worse things all the time. So Smiley finally beat him, by becoming him. That I call plying along. And he does so very aware of it and hard on himself.
  - toyg 6y ago
    Yeah, but that's a point about the line of work, I think. The fact that certain "professions" will inevitably corrupt, because they are fundamentally based on deceit, so ultimately it's not possible to win if you stay clean. LeCarrè's aim throughout has always been to dismantle the James Bond myth, which was massive when he was writing and massively at odds with his own experience, so he attacks that world from the foundations. Or at least that's how I see it.
thewhitetulip 6y ago
Thats not it actually. I just find his narration to be difficult to follow. I had finished Matthew railley's temple in 8 straight hours, entire Harry potter books in a weekend and GoT all books within 2 months while having a full time job Le carre on the other hand, tried to read Absolute friends thrice before giving up. Tinker tailor twice before giving up The only other author I've given up on was the guy who wrote His Dark Materials. Dont know why, they didn't "come at me"
- hutzlibu 6y ago
  I don't know about railleys temple, but the Harry Potter books I swallowed in no time, too. But yes, you cannot really do this with Carre's books. You either read very slowly (which I tend not to), or you read them twice or more to fully understand. It is very deep shit, so to say. In terms of Character and story. There are long mental battles fought, in dialoges in a boring room. And you try to make sense of it all. The layers of conspiracies. When the characters come in play with the story - when some slight things hinted in a dialoge - will in hindsight later reveal that person to be a traitor. So I read his books as elaborate dedective books. Shooting and night assaults do happen, but are quite rarely and happen fast and get not battle glorified. Like in reality. Sometimes you read only about the bloody shadow battles by a note the protagonist reads in secret. So you have to be into that, or not.
  - thewhitetulip 6y ago
    So all I need is hang in there. Will try later!

toyg 6y ago

I don't see how Smiley fails to be a decent human being in Tinker Tailor - he "plays along" only with her unfaithful wife, and that's because he basically loves her unconditionally (although eventually they will separate in later books, iirc).

hutzlibu 6y ago
I actually did not read Tinker Tailor yet, but several others, including the finale: He still plays along the dirty lines of spycraft, which are at odds with "decent human being" quite often. Spoileralert for the next paragraph: With the finale of Smiley blackmailing a - by all accounts of the spys observing him, a very nice guy - into cooperation. Then blackmailing a father to change sides, otherwise his psychological ill daughter will have to leave her Swiss sanatorium and face Russia, which meant Sibiria as she would have been classified as dissident and not ill (she was both). Ok, the father was Karla, the cruel head of the KGB's 13. very black Division. Smileys antagonist. Who did this and worse things all the time. So Smiley finally beat him, by becoming him. That I call plying along. And he does so very aware of it and hard on himself.
- toyg 6y ago
  Yeah, but that's a point about the line of work, I think. The fact that certain "professions" will inevitably corrupt, because they are fundamentally based on deceit, so ultimately it's not possible to win if you stay clean. LeCarrè's aim throughout has always been to dismantle the James Bond myth, which was massive when he was writing and massively at odds with his own experience, so he attacks that world from the foundations. Or at least that's how I see it.

thewhitetulip 6y ago

Thats not it actually. I just find his narration to be difficult to follow. I had finished Matthew railley's temple in 8 straight hours, entire Harry potter books in a weekend and GoT all books within 2 months while having a full time job Le carre on the other hand, tried to read Absolute friends thrice before giving up. Tinker tailor twice before giving up The only other author I've given up on was the guy who wrote His Dark Materials. Dont know why, they didn't "come at me"

hutzlibu 6y ago
I don't know about railleys temple, but the Harry Potter books I swallowed in no time, too. But yes, you cannot really do this with Carre's books. You either read very slowly (which I tend not to), or you read them twice or more to fully understand. It is very deep shit, so to say. In terms of Character and story. There are long mental battles fought, in dialoges in a boring room. And you try to make sense of it all. The layers of conspiracies. When the characters come in play with the story - when some slight things hinted in a dialoge - will in hindsight later reveal that person to be a traitor. So I read his books as elaborate dedective books. Shooting and night assaults do happen, but are quite rarely and happen fast and get not battle glorified. Like in reality. Sometimes you read only about the bloody shadow battles by a note the protagonist reads in secret. So you have to be into that, or not.
- thewhitetulip 6y ago
  So all I need is hang in there. Will try later!