5 ms·

Makes you think what kinds of things we may find in the space of 256-byte programs. Is there a convincing chatbot there somewhere (sans language training)? Perh

Makes you think what kinds of things we may find in the space of 256-byte programs. Is there a convincing chatbot there somewhere (sans language training)? Perhaps something conscious?

indy 6y ago
Although not quite 256 bytes, here's a chess playing program in 288 bytes: https://leanchess.github.io/ https://leanchess.github.io/
apples_oranges 6y ago
z_n+1 = z_n^2 + c <- fewer than 256 bytes, yet it can be used to produce a beautiful endlessly complex image. To me it almost feels as if God or whoever has intentionally hidden it, in the way everything works I mean, so that we could one day find it. Once we have invented complex numbers for example.. What other secrets are out there? Or rather in here?
bloak 6y ago
There is probably a 256-byte program that simulates a universe in which a superhuman intelligence evolves. Of course the memory and runtime requirements of that program would be prohibitive, and the superhuman intelligence would not know any human language, because there are more than 2048 bits of entropy in the basic vocabulary of any language (even Toki Pona, I would guess).
- exikyut 6y ago
  Hmmm. This makes me wonder if, in the same way we've been technically-erroneously been hyperfocusing on CPU speed and quantity of memory in system-measuring contests and benchmarks, we've developed a fixation for how little RAM or CPU we can use while doing something interesting. I don't see the same sorts of fights developing around how much disk space we use or what the specs of all the systems we used for preprocessing are. Demos are supposed to be about conquering limitations, right? Inspiring creativity and all that? Well, why can't we add those sorts of constraints in, then? Aren't we smart enough? :P We might even build consciousness one day if we're honest about how much total resources we're using. That way we would actually have to reason about all the bits (no more "GPUs are really *that complicated* that what you're describing is impossible") and there would be no more black boxes. Demos would be interesting.
- ajuc 6y ago
  > There is probably a 256-byte program that simulates a universe in which a superhuman intelligence evolves I can even write it :) x = 0 while (true): eval(int_to_code(x)) x += 1 of course the runtime will be probably quite long EDIT: I forgot about the stop problem. But that's easy - stop the eval when memory repeats. x = 0 prevStates = None while (true): state = x prevStates = set() while(not state in prevStates): prevStates += state state = eval_1_step(int_to_code(state)) x += 1 int_to_code and eval_1_step should be part of the language What really blows my mind is that this basically makes the multiverse (everything that could happen - happens in some other universe).
grishka 6y ago
It is plausible that there could be an initially 256-byte program that is self-expanding, as in, it generates more code as it runs, gradually increasing the complexity of whatever it's doing.
- wussboy 6y ago
  ... you mean like our DNA?
- alcover 6y ago
  > increasing the complexity of whatever it's doing. I wonder if this is possible at all without external input. I'm an ignorant in Complexity Theory though.
- codeulike 6y ago
  You could have something generating a sequence, say PI to infinite digits, and then 'executing' instructions based on those digits. You'd have to design the 'language' very carefully so that any errors or nonsensical series of instructions were ignored or recovered from. Some way of avoiding infinite loops. Hmmmm. It's probably not possible to guarantee that it wouldn't get stuck in a loop eventually (which would mean complexity would no longer increase). My bet is on this being impossible to continue indefinitely due to the halting problem implying that it would fall into a loop eventually.
Cybiote 6y ago
Anthropomorphizing evolution a little, I'd bet the department that works on crafting serious intelligence into bees and jumping spider into milliwatt (or perhaps order 10² μW) brains would look respectfully at this kind of demo-scene wizardry.

Makes you think what kinds of things we may find in the space of 256-byte programs. Is there a convincing chatbot there somewhere (sans language training)? Perhaps something conscious?

indy 6y ago

Although not quite 256 bytes, here's a chess playing program in 288 bytes: https://leanchess.github.io/ https://leanchess.github.io/

apples_oranges 6y ago

z_n+1 = z_n^2 + c <- fewer than 256 bytes, yet it can be used to produce a beautiful endlessly complex image. To me it almost feels as if God or whoever has intentionally hidden it, in the way everything works I mean, so that we could one day find it. Once we have invented complex numbers for example.. What other secrets are out there? Or rather in here?

bloak 6y ago

There is probably a 256-byte program that simulates a universe in which a superhuman intelligence evolves. Of course the memory and runtime requirements of that program would be prohibitive, and the superhuman intelligence would not know any human language, because there are more than 2048 bits of entropy in the basic vocabulary of any language (even Toki Pona, I would guess).

exikyut 6y ago
Hmmm. This makes me wonder if, in the same way we've been technically-erroneously been hyperfocusing on CPU speed and quantity of memory in system-measuring contests and benchmarks, we've developed a fixation for how little RAM or CPU we can use while doing something interesting. I don't see the same sorts of fights developing around how much disk space we use or what the specs of all the systems we used for preprocessing are. Demos are supposed to be about conquering limitations, right? Inspiring creativity and all that? Well, why can't we add those sorts of constraints in, then? Aren't we smart enough? :P We might even build consciousness one day if we're honest about how much total resources we're using. That way we would actually have to reason about all the bits (no more "GPUs are really *that complicated* that what you're describing is impossible") and there would be no more black boxes. Demos would be interesting.
ajuc 6y ago
> There is probably a 256-byte program that simulates a universe in which a superhuman intelligence evolves I can even write it :) x = 0 while (true): eval(int_to_code(x)) x += 1 of course the runtime will be probably quite long EDIT: I forgot about the stop problem. But that's easy - stop the eval when memory repeats. x = 0 prevStates = None while (true): state = x prevStates = set() while(not state in prevStates): prevStates += state state = eval_1_step(int_to_code(state)) x += 1 int_to_code and eval_1_step should be part of the language What really blows my mind is that this basically makes the multiverse (everything that could happen - happens in some other universe).

grishka 6y ago

It is plausible that there could be an initially 256-byte program that is self-expanding, as in, it generates more code as it runs, gradually increasing the complexity of whatever it's doing.

wussboy 6y ago
... you mean like our DNA?
alcover 6y ago
> increasing the complexity of whatever it's doing. I wonder if this is possible at all without external input. I'm an ignorant in Complexity Theory though.
codeulike 6y ago
You could have something generating a sequence, say PI to infinite digits, and then 'executing' instructions based on those digits. You'd have to design the 'language' very carefully so that any errors or nonsensical series of instructions were ignored or recovered from. Some way of avoiding infinite loops. Hmmmm. It's probably not possible to guarantee that it wouldn't get stuck in a loop eventually (which would mean complexity would no longer increase). My bet is on this being impossible to continue indefinitely due to the halting problem implying that it would fall into a loop eventually.

Cybiote 6y ago

Anthropomorphizing evolution a little, I'd bet the department that works on crafting serious intelligence into bees and jumping spider into milliwatt (or perhaps order 10² μW) brains would look respectfully at this kind of demo-scene wizardry.