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No, I disagree. The primary reason is that we keep defining self actualisation through full time careers climbing silly ladders where you can never stall becaus

by brnt 6y ago

No, I disagree. The primary reason is that we keep defining self actualisation through full time careers climbing silly ladders where you can never stall because up or out. If fulltime employment was 25hrs, and/or we wouldn't have to compete with people (mostly men because of the imbalanced parental leave in many places) being able to focus solely on work, nobody would have problems raising children's in their 20ies

watwut 6y ago
It is really not just that. Having kids and staying with them means quite isolating lifestyle, pretty much anything you used to do regularly or pride yourself at being good at becomes impossible or much harder. "Anything" includes socializing with friends and having uninterrupted adult conversations about topics that are not kids. It means sport, art, hobbies, whatever you engaged with or was happy about. It means that your life is very routine with not much happening, but little things being harder then normally (like going to shop or hike). It kind of pushes you toward passivity, because if you want to be active it gets frustrating. But, the isolation, lack of social contact and nothing interesting happening whole months were hardest for me. People sneer about career here as if every woman was having great sky ascending career. And as if men would not liked their jobs fairly regularly. In most cases these are jobs where you get some but little sense of being good at something, but it still keeps you out of depression. Or simply a thing that keeps you having money so that you dont have count every penny every time you buy something. Or that you simply are not desperately dependent on other people.
- Viliam1234 6y ago
  It gets less fun, but how much, that depends a lot on how old the kids are, how far you live from your friends, what are your hobbies, whether you live near to your extended family, etc. Sufficiently nerdy people do talk about topics that are not kids, even when their kids are playing next to them. A small baby you can put in a child carrier and go on a walk with your friends and discuss whatever. With pre-school children, you can have a talk with your friends at the playground, while the kids are playing. The most easily you can synchronize with friends who have children in similar age; you can organize a vacation together, or go to a playground together. And you can have some fun when the kids are at their grandparents. Or during the weekend, one parent is with kids, the other has a free day; they can switch their roles the next day. It is definitely not as much fun as it was before. But there are ways to keep some quality moments once in a while.
  - watwut 6y ago
    I have kids. It doea not work the way to describe, because they interrupt you too often for the discussion. Second reason is that their interruptions prevent serious engagement with ... pretty much anything and so your ability to talk about those things go down as well. Fourth, you are not exposed to adults as much - you spend overwhelming majority of your time alone. That in turn makes people much more tiring when you meet them once in a while. Fifth, you have competely different lifestyle then people who dont have kids of the same age. They dont understand you when you need to talk about your issues and frustrations and most likely will just dismiss them. Over time, you will do the same to them as you cease to understand their lifestyles. Then again, people with same age kids that are around are very often having completely different interests and values, so taking about kids is the single one thing you have in common. > one parent is with kids, the other has a free day; they can switch their roles the next day. Yes this helps to keep sanity. But not that this is little bit of time where you want to pack everything - sport, socialization, professional learning, hobby fun. Prior kids, you engage in all of these multiple times a week. You literally socialize all the time in work, m whether you want it or not. Once a week is not enough time nor enouh frequency to be good at something. It means to won't have feeling of personal achievement for a lot of time. I mean, I see it the most clearly as kids get more independent and I see how much easier everything is becoming. I have seen how tiring people were when I came back to work and how difficult and tiring communication was at first. I think it took over year to get comfortable again and two years to build ability to have friends again.
    - Viliam1234 6y ago
      Our strategy for hanging out with friends is that both parents go, one takes care of the kids, the other talks to friends; then we switch.
burntoutfire 6y ago
> The primary reason is that we keep defining self actualisation through full time careers climbing silly ladders where you can never stall because up or out. Very few careers paths are up or out. It's definitely a choice to go on one of them.

by brnt 6y ago

watwut 6y ago

It is really not just that. Having kids and staying with them means quite isolating lifestyle, pretty much anything you used to do regularly or pride yourself at being good at becomes impossible or much harder. "Anything" includes socializing with friends and having uninterrupted adult conversations about topics that are not kids. It means sport, art, hobbies, whatever you engaged with or was happy about. It means that your life is very routine with not much happening, but little things being harder then normally (like going to shop or hike). It kind of pushes you toward passivity, because if you want to be active it gets frustrating. But, the isolation, lack of social contact and nothing interesting happening whole months were hardest for me. People sneer about career here as if every woman was having great sky ascending career. And as if men would not liked their jobs fairly regularly. In most cases these are jobs where you get some but little sense of being good at something, but it still keeps you out of depression. Or simply a thing that keeps you having money so that you dont have count every penny every time you buy something. Or that you simply are not desperately dependent on other people.

Viliam1234 6y ago
It gets less fun, but how much, that depends a lot on how old the kids are, how far you live from your friends, what are your hobbies, whether you live near to your extended family, etc. Sufficiently nerdy people do talk about topics that are not kids, even when their kids are playing next to them. A small baby you can put in a child carrier and go on a walk with your friends and discuss whatever. With pre-school children, you can have a talk with your friends at the playground, while the kids are playing. The most easily you can synchronize with friends who have children in similar age; you can organize a vacation together, or go to a playground together. And you can have some fun when the kids are at their grandparents. Or during the weekend, one parent is with kids, the other has a free day; they can switch their roles the next day. It is definitely not as much fun as it was before. But there are ways to keep some quality moments once in a while.
- watwut 6y ago
  I have kids. It doea not work the way to describe, because they interrupt you too often for the discussion. Second reason is that their interruptions prevent serious engagement with ... pretty much anything and so your ability to talk about those things go down as well. Fourth, you are not exposed to adults as much - you spend overwhelming majority of your time alone. That in turn makes people much more tiring when you meet them once in a while. Fifth, you have competely different lifestyle then people who dont have kids of the same age. They dont understand you when you need to talk about your issues and frustrations and most likely will just dismiss them. Over time, you will do the same to them as you cease to understand their lifestyles. Then again, people with same age kids that are around are very often having completely different interests and values, so taking about kids is the single one thing you have in common. > one parent is with kids, the other has a free day; they can switch their roles the next day. Yes this helps to keep sanity. But not that this is little bit of time where you want to pack everything - sport, socialization, professional learning, hobby fun. Prior kids, you engage in all of these multiple times a week. You literally socialize all the time in work, m whether you want it or not. Once a week is not enough time nor enouh frequency to be good at something. It means to won't have feeling of personal achievement for a lot of time. I mean, I see it the most clearly as kids get more independent and I see how much easier everything is becoming. I have seen how tiring people were when I came back to work and how difficult and tiring communication was at first. I think it took over year to get comfortable again and two years to build ability to have friends again.
  - Viliam1234 6y ago
    Our strategy for hanging out with friends is that both parents go, one takes care of the kids, the other talks to friends; then we switch.

burntoutfire 6y ago

> The primary reason is that we keep defining self actualisation through full time careers climbing silly ladders where you can never stall because up or out. Very few careers paths are up or out. It's definitely a choice to go on one of them.