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This seems like a woefully incomplete analysis. The same basic evolution happened in manufacturing and for largely the same reasons. Boutique job shops replac

by jcims 6y ago

This seems like a woefully incomplete analysis. The same basic evolution happened in manufacturing and for largely the same reasons. Boutique job shops replaced by industralized mass production facilities replaced by abstracted labor and infrastructure in offshore contracts. Boutique stores worked downtown because there was no better option, not because it was great. Who wants to drive downtown to get shoes or a tie? Going in and out of building after building, dealing with traffic, trying to keep your packages out of the rain, etc. sucks. Malls took over because you could socialize, you were out of the elements, there was a mix of attractions and shopping, it was comfortable and safe to walk everywhere. You also didn't have to deal with driving in and out of downtown, they were almost always right off of some major highway. But malls aren't great either. There’s been zero innovation in the business model since the beginning. Relative to the Internet, the selection sucks, prices suck and the logistics suck. Shopping is an event rather than an impulse. Back when you could download your entire Amazon order history, my chart of orders and spending nearly had an expoential curve in it from 2006 to 2018 as the superior (to me) experience gradually drained my business away from brick and mortar. And guess what's back? Boutique shops. My daughter opened up an Etsy store when she was 14 and has sold custom sculptures and stickers to people all over the world. No way she could have done that downtown or in the local mall.

cgriswald 6y ago
I recently ordered something from Newegg and it was shipped from China to some place 500 miles away from me. They don’t even charge me... the seller does. They only guarantee. So if the seller doesn’t refund me then I have to file a claim through them. Screw that. My Amazon orders have dropped precipitously and I’m trying to get my girlfriend to stop ordering from there as well. I’ve gotten too many obvious someone-else’s-returns and fake items. Amazon has always been mostly okay with returns. (Once they wanted to charge me for a low value item I had them reship when their system said it was delivered but it wasn’t, but otherwise refunds and returns have been no problem.) I find myself going to brick-and-mortar stores more often lately, especially since they seem to have gotten curbside pickup down. Otherwise o tend to go straight to the manufacturer when possible.
- noobermin 6y ago
  Why is this being downvoted? Isn't this a common experience with online stores? Not to mention them tracking you amongst other things?
- the_only_law 6y ago
  > I recently ordered something from Newegg and it was shipped from China to some place 500 miles away from me. This just recently happened to me. Ordered from a 3rd party on Newegg. It ended up getting delivered somewhere in Wichita, Kansas. I live in Florida.
m463 6y ago
> when you could download your entire Amazon order history You could do that? And now you can't? (otoh maybe I don't want to know)
- jcims 6y ago
  Yeah it was just a link in the search results of the order history page. Technically you can still get the data but it’s through a manual request process.
galkk 6y ago
> Boutique stores worked downtown because there was no better option 100 times this. People really romanticize "mom and dad shops", forgetting many of their issues - often limited/no selection of large/tall/petite clothes, worse/non-existing return policies and often lack of parking space/restrooms.
enriquto 6y ago
> Who wants to drive downtown to get shoes or a tie? I had a hard time understanding the meaning of this sentence, and its context. The idea of "driving downtown to go shopping" is backwards to me. You live downtown, and walk a few meters to the shop. Then I realized that you may be from the USA, where your cities seem to be turned inside out. You are indeed a funny country.
- procinct 6y ago
  I’m not from the USA but the statement makes perfect sense to me. I’m not quite sure what you imply with your point, that everyone where you are from lives “downtown” or that people where you’re from can always just walk to an equivalent.
  - enriquto 6y ago
    > everyone where you are from lives “downtown” or that people where you’re from can always just walk to an equivalent Both, really. From all the people I know, there's only one person who cannot walk from his place to a nearby bakery. And in that case it was a conscious decision to "become isolated" and buy a house in an unlikely place. Walking every morning to buy bread for breakfast is a deeply entrenched cultural thing. I cannot really imagine living somewhere where this is not possible. Most of urbanized places are indeed downtown.
    - jfengel 6y ago
      Bakeries aren't generally found in malls. Malls are for items like shoes and socks -- items you get a few times a year, perhaps, not every day. Malls will have cafes that sell baked goods, but you probably wouldn't go there for your daily bread. Sadly, bakeries in America are rare. Your daily bread comes from the supermarket. Much of it isn't baked on site, and it's designed to keep for several days. We don't have a tradition of daily fresh bread, which is too bad for a lot of reasons. But Americans have plenty of food options so don't weep too much for us. If you want decent bread, it's available in many places, including many of those supermarkets and chain bakeries like Panera. It's not magnificent bread, but it's good. Magnificent bread is also available; it's just not a priority. Americans do have a pretty dysfunctional relationship with food, and we'd be a lot healthier if we fixed it. But the mall isn't really part of that. That's more about the supermarket than the mall, and those are separate niches.
noobermin 6y ago
> Who wants to drive downtown to get shoes or a tie? You're already failing with this logic.
- jcims 6y ago
  I wouldn’t say downtown is formally defined but it does carry some connotation. Where is the failure? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downtown https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downtown

by jcims 6y ago

cgriswald 6y ago

I recently ordered something from Newegg and it was shipped from China to some place 500 miles away from me. They don’t even charge me... the seller does. They only guarantee. So if the seller doesn’t refund me then I have to file a claim through them. Screw that. My Amazon orders have dropped precipitously and I’m trying to get my girlfriend to stop ordering from there as well. I’ve gotten too many obvious someone-else’s-returns and fake items. Amazon has always been mostly okay with returns. (Once they wanted to charge me for a low value item I had them reship when their system said it was delivered but it wasn’t, but otherwise refunds and returns have been no problem.) I find myself going to brick-and-mortar stores more often lately, especially since they seem to have gotten curbside pickup down. Otherwise o tend to go straight to the manufacturer when possible.

noobermin 6y ago
Why is this being downvoted? Isn't this a common experience with online stores? Not to mention them tracking you amongst other things?
the_only_law 6y ago
> I recently ordered something from Newegg and it was shipped from China to some place 500 miles away from me. This just recently happened to me. Ordered from a 3rd party on Newegg. It ended up getting delivered somewhere in Wichita, Kansas. I live in Florida.

m463 6y ago

> when you could download your entire Amazon order history You could do that? And now you can't? (otoh maybe I don't want to know)

jcims 6y ago
Yeah it was just a link in the search results of the order history page. Technically you can still get the data but it’s through a manual request process.

galkk 6y ago

> Boutique stores worked downtown because there was no better option 100 times this. People really romanticize "mom and dad shops", forgetting many of their issues - often limited/no selection of large/tall/petite clothes, worse/non-existing return policies and often lack of parking space/restrooms.

enriquto 6y ago

> Who wants to drive downtown to get shoes or a tie? I had a hard time understanding the meaning of this sentence, and its context. The idea of "driving downtown to go shopping" is backwards to me. You live downtown, and walk a few meters to the shop. Then I realized that you may be from the USA, where your cities seem to be turned inside out. You are indeed a funny country.

procinct 6y ago
I’m not from the USA but the statement makes perfect sense to me. I’m not quite sure what you imply with your point, that everyone where you are from lives “downtown” or that people where you’re from can always just walk to an equivalent.
- enriquto 6y ago
  > everyone where you are from lives “downtown” or that people where you’re from can always just walk to an equivalent Both, really. From all the people I know, there's only one person who cannot walk from his place to a nearby bakery. And in that case it was a conscious decision to "become isolated" and buy a house in an unlikely place. Walking every morning to buy bread for breakfast is a deeply entrenched cultural thing. I cannot really imagine living somewhere where this is not possible. Most of urbanized places are indeed downtown.
  - jfengel 6y ago
    Bakeries aren't generally found in malls. Malls are for items like shoes and socks -- items you get a few times a year, perhaps, not every day. Malls will have cafes that sell baked goods, but you probably wouldn't go there for your daily bread. Sadly, bakeries in America are rare. Your daily bread comes from the supermarket. Much of it isn't baked on site, and it's designed to keep for several days. We don't have a tradition of daily fresh bread, which is too bad for a lot of reasons. But Americans have plenty of food options so don't weep too much for us. If you want decent bread, it's available in many places, including many of those supermarkets and chain bakeries like Panera. It's not magnificent bread, but it's good. Magnificent bread is also available; it's just not a priority. Americans do have a pretty dysfunctional relationship with food, and we'd be a lot healthier if we fixed it. But the mall isn't really part of that. That's more about the supermarket than the mall, and those are separate niches.

noobermin 6y ago

> Who wants to drive downtown to get shoes or a tie? You're already failing with this logic.

jcims 6y ago
I wouldn’t say downtown is formally defined but it does carry some connotation. Where is the failure? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downtown https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downtown