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Is it fair to compare value and tax revenue of the 9 downtown blocks to the mall? Aren’t malls usually built in cheap areas because the land has low value, whil

kiba 6y ago
Is it fair to compare value and tax revenue of the 9 downtown blocks to the mall? Aren’t malls usually built in cheap areas because the land has low value, while downtown is typically, well, down town. Well, downtown have something going for it if it's valuable. Land that are of low value aren't exactly prime estate. Also the mall space is including parking lots and the 9 blocks have parking somewhere but not in those 9 blocks. Why would that in itself be valuable use of lands? Remember, even the roads are a land use choice.
- prepend 6y ago
  Parking lots are not very valuable. I meant that the mall parcel includes retail space and parking while the 9 blocks is only retail space. So it’s comparing different densities. I was thinking that there is probably some parking lots for the people doing that shopping that should be included when comparing taxes per area. I think it would be an accurate comparison if those 9 blocks were replaced by a mall, but this seems like apples to oranges if the goal is to see which brings in more tax revenue to the community. I suppose sales tax would be really important too.
  - quickthrowman 6y ago
    > Parking lots are not very valuable. ??? It depends entirely on the location of the parking lot. The land value of a downtown parking lot which is the same size as a high-rise building lot next door is going to be similar. Obviously the high-rise is worth more money since there’s a building with leasable space, but the land value of both lots will be very close. A parking lot doesn’t need to remain a parking lot forever, you could borrow money and build a building on it.
gregwebs 6y ago
The downtown could have good public transportation options along with many living or working close by as well. When there is parking it is more likely to be a denser parking garage.
bostonvaulter2 6y ago
But the whole business model of the mall is not viable without the parking lot, so I think it makes sense to include the parking lot in the analysis.
- prepend 6y ago
  Yes, that is true. I’m not contending that parking lots aren’t required for malls to work. I just think it’s comparing different densities of commercial areas. It doesn’t factor in the parking lots needed to support the 9 blocks of downtown. So the level of spatial resolution seems off to make an accurate comparison. It seems to me the point was “downtown shopping is better for tax base than malls” and shows the tax for those two areas. But my not including the parking needed for downtown those aren’t really comparable areas in that there is additional space needed to support the downtown area. But the bigger area is comparing downtown to whatever land was turned into a mall since I’m not aware of any malls that were literally used to replace town squares. In the small to middle towns I’m familiar with the mall was built away from the center of town frequently on farmland or similar empty space.

kiba 6y ago

Is it fair to compare value and tax revenue of the 9 downtown blocks to the mall? Aren’t malls usually built in cheap areas because the land has low value, while downtown is typically, well, down town. Well, downtown have something going for it if it's valuable. Land that are of low value aren't exactly prime estate. Also the mall space is including parking lots and the 9 blocks have parking somewhere but not in those 9 blocks. Why would that in itself be valuable use of lands? Remember, even the roads are a land use choice.

prepend 6y ago
Parking lots are not very valuable. I meant that the mall parcel includes retail space and parking while the 9 blocks is only retail space. So it’s comparing different densities. I was thinking that there is probably some parking lots for the people doing that shopping that should be included when comparing taxes per area. I think it would be an accurate comparison if those 9 blocks were replaced by a mall, but this seems like apples to oranges if the goal is to see which brings in more tax revenue to the community. I suppose sales tax would be really important too.
- quickthrowman 6y ago
  > Parking lots are not very valuable. ??? It depends entirely on the location of the parking lot. The land value of a downtown parking lot which is the same size as a high-rise building lot next door is going to be similar. Obviously the high-rise is worth more money since there’s a building with leasable space, but the land value of both lots will be very close. A parking lot doesn’t need to remain a parking lot forever, you could borrow money and build a building on it.

gregwebs 6y ago

The downtown could have good public transportation options along with many living or working close by as well. When there is parking it is more likely to be a denser parking garage.

bostonvaulter2 6y ago

But the whole business model of the mall is not viable without the parking lot, so I think it makes sense to include the parking lot in the analysis.

prepend 6y ago
Yes, that is true. I’m not contending that parking lots aren’t required for malls to work. I just think it’s comparing different densities of commercial areas. It doesn’t factor in the parking lots needed to support the 9 blocks of downtown. So the level of spatial resolution seems off to make an accurate comparison. It seems to me the point was “downtown shopping is better for tax base than malls” and shows the tax for those two areas. But my not including the parking needed for downtown those aren’t really comparable areas in that there is additional space needed to support the downtown area. But the bigger area is comparing downtown to whatever land was turned into a mall since I’m not aware of any malls that were literally used to replace town squares. In the small to middle towns I’m familiar with the mall was built away from the center of town frequently on farmland or similar empty space.